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Deadlift Form Check please! (Part 2)
Hello,
This was my original thread:
http://startingstrength.com/resource...ad.php?t=50001
Tom told me to go do a set of 275 and record it, however I took too long so my thread was locked. Alas, here is a set of 280 I just did last sunday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5YV...ature=youtu.be
Through my eyes, it looks like the first rep was fine, and 2 thru 5 I don't keep the back tight enough. I will note that the first felt a little heavier than 2-5.
I do feel like the back is tight the whole time, and in no way was I sore in the lower back the next day. This 275 wasn't too heavy, but the grip was slipping since I was using DOH.
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The first rep is better than the rest, but your back doesn't remain fully locked even there. As in your last thread, the first thing that happens upon initiation of the pull is your lumbar spine flexing. This is not good.
However, it could be because of your DOH grip. When your body senses the grip isn't secure, you can't keep as hard a squeeze.
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On the video of 315 as seen here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9czKVPzL8Iw
I was using alternate grip, but my back rounds there.
I have deadlifts coming up again this Friday, how should I proceed? Knock the weight back even more, or just press on. Is it unsafe to proceed with a back rounding this badly?
I once felt like I had the same problem at 255, and I spent two weeks or so trying to keep it straight. Eventually I just said screw it and pressed on, not paying as much attention to back straightness, and instead focused on keeping everything tight, and eventually I went from not being able to get 300lbs off the floor for 1 to 315lbs for 5 with a not so straight back. But I might have only been able to get away from this uninjured because the weight is relatively light.
At this point, dropping any lower in the DL will have my SQ relatively close to it in weight.
Right now my SQ is at 275x2. PC is at 170x3.
Would getting Weightlifting shoes make a difference? I seem to have a more horizontal than average back when pulling.
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Since that set is 315 and not 280, I can't say if your back would still round with a mixed grip at 280. But from what I've seen, I suspect it would. Letting the low back round so much in training, especially at the relatively modest strength level you're still at, is not a good idea. You should find the weight you can do with a lumbar locked into extension, and then slowly go up from there.
As you noted, you were able to get stronger without keeping your low back flat, but you're fortunate not to have paid for it yet. Could be because the weight is relatively light, could be because you're relatively tolerant of flexion, could be that you did do something but it wasn't so pronounced that it became symptomatic (yet). Could be all three. But this isn't a good path for you to be on for your long term training career. You need to get your low back strong and learn to keep it flat. Don't think about 315, be thinking about 405 and 455 and 495. Long term progress will require that you get your low back strong. The deadlift is the best and most direct way to train that, and, right now, you're not getting that training effect from the lift because you're letting it round.
Don't worry if your squat weight is close to your DL weight. Worry about getting your DL right.
Lifting should could help with this. Though more often we see them help people who just can't get their low backs fully extended, and it appears you can, but it also appears you really want to keep dropping your hips, as Comrade Campitelli noted. Maybe that's why. A pair of lifting shoes might help, but I can't say for sure.
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Okeydoke. Gonna go for 265 this week. Hopefully that stays flat.
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Well, here's the video of 265lbs x 5.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngCy...ature=youtu.be
Overall I think it went well. It could be flatter. It is frusturating that I was struggling that much with that weight, but I put everything in my conscious power into keeping the back tight, which did make the pull feel harder than it usually is. I had to readjust the setup because I felt like I wasn't in the right position by the time I went down.
The whole thing has me anxious, because prior to this thread, I always felt like my back was straight performing the lift, but now I can see it hasn't been. So while I can tell through proprioception that my back is flat when setting up the pull, during the pull I kind of lose the ability to determine if its becoming bent or not.
I'm thinking about experimenting with different cues to assist with the lift. Planning on hitting 270 next week, unless 275 sounds better.
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On a side note, in this case, would getting a shoe with a 0.5" heel or 0.75" heel be more beneficial? (specifically for the deadlift.)
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Did my post ever go through? I uploaded a new video of 265 last last night.
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Back is better but still not where it needs to be. You're still dropping your hips and starting with the bar forward of mid foot. Do the set-up as listed in the pulling from the floor sticky. Once your shins touch the bar, DO NOT DROP YOUR HIPS ANY LOWER. Just squeeze up from there, and push your feet into the floor to initiate the pull.
A heel might help. You don't show any problem getting your back flat prior to the pull, but it could be just because you're dropping your hips. Squeezing up without dropping your hips might be assisted by the more closed knee angle the heels will provide.
Now you're annoying me.Originally Posted by Championadrien
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Sorry, I didn't mean to pester you, just wasn't sure if I actually hit submit on the post, I sometimes have that problem. I hope this doesn't change things between us.
When I'm performing the movement, I never noticed that my hips were dropping. I figured it must be embedded somewhere in my subconscious with the back straightening process. So I redid 265lbsx5. I set the back with the same chest up mind set but added in "don't drop the hips."
The result is I still drop the hips. Since this video just demonstrates I don't know the hips are dropping, I performed another set of 5 (the 265lbs is not very draining), this time focusing on the hips not dropping and trying to pull the back straight. The result is I never really get a straight back and it looks like a nearly stiff legged deadlift.
I want to mention that the 2nd set felt like an RDL going up, and I felt like my legs weren't helping at all. The back felt as tight as the first set, but it doesn't look as tight as the first set.
In conclusion, I think I am unable to pull my back into extension without dropping the hips. With that being said, is it wrong to pull the way I am in the first set? It looks like the back stays straighter than it used to stay in the first few videos, and considering that the bar looks like it has no horizontal movement from the floor to the top, is it safe to assume that the bar is in fact starting above the mid-foot position?
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