stronger without supplements?

[sfischer]

hi geez guys-

how many of you are succeeding in getting strong w/o supplements?

I am not inclined to go down the supplement route unless it is very clear i'll get nowhere without doing so.

that said, i don't have a problem w/ a protein shake, or similar, after a workout.

thanks for your advice,
steve

[Joe Murphy]

I can't imagine why you'd try.

[melody]

What do you mean by "supplement"?

[johnnys]

hi geez guys-

how many of you are succeeding in getting strong w/o supplements?

I felt the same way until I topped out the first time (more than 9 months in, in my late 40s). Creatine and BCAAs, plus PP3 got me progressing again and I haven't stopped.

[Mark E. Hurling]

I tired a lot of stuff in my late 30's and 40's. Only creatine had some effect. Nowadays at 64 I only take a men's one a day multi-vitamin and 50mg of DHEA.

[sfischer]

Thanks guys,

Mostly I'd like to hear from guys who are progressing without supplements. If I hear a bunch of success stories that will help me stay the course of going without.

Somebody asked why I'd want to go without. Everybody has their own value system. Part of mine is to avoid processed commercial chemicals, and spending money on them.

It is not an absolute, just a preference.

Reports about success with supplements won't sway me much, even if you are persuaded, as it has been shown over and over that dietary supplementation has a large placebo effect. Not that there is anything wrong with the placebo effect. If a supplement works for you, great. It might well be a real effect.

Reports of success without supplements I would think would be informative.

Steve

[Greg Esres]

been shown over and over that dietary supplementation has a large placebo effect...
Reports of success without supplements I would think would be informative.

I agree with your skeptical attitude, but reports of success without supplements will not be informative at all. Just because someone else succeeds without supplements doesn't mean that you will, because people have different bodies.

[vanslix]

Diet and sleep are going to account for the OVERWHELMING bulk of progress. Supplements, namely creatine are only going to matter for that last 5 or so percentage points (making that number up but you get the idea). If you're not competing, or don't need to eke out every possible gain, I'd say they're not necessary. They will help optimize an already optimized diet/sleep. Except caffeine but I can't do anything without caffeine. But I'd look to food/sleep or programming for lack of progression first and foremost.

[Kyle Schuant]

Recently I've started taking whey. Essentially, I am too lazy to plan me and my family's meals around getting enough protein in, and I got sick of always eating chicken breast, steak and tins of tuna. I don't mind lots of milk and eggs but being a geezling (in Hurling's taxonomy) I will pudge up fairly easily so don't want too many calories in the form of carbs and fats along with the protein. So whey looks pretty good for this, a few scoops a day plus an otherwise normal diet with no special planning and I've got enough protein to progress.

Apart from creatine the other supplements don't do much anyway. I agree, sleep is the most important. But perhaps I just say that because I've got a three year old son.

That and other things will cause a lot of variability. For example, the other day I had bench and squats to do, I knocked out the bench in the morning while one of my clients was in the garage gym with me and it was great, solid and strong. Then I went for lunch to see a protege at her gym, which is in fact the gym I started at. She invited me to work out there, I said okay and did my squats. But because I'd not planned to do it there I didn't have my shoes or belt with me, and the squats were horrible and sloppy and my back hurt the rest of the day and the next morning. Then yesterday I was about to do my press and deadlift workout, it was morning, I'd had a big breakfast and a good sleep and was feeling great, a client in the city called me up and wanted me to come train him, for a hundred bucks a session I can't say no, so I went in. Came home later and had to make dinner and all that, then a bunch of clients came around after that and the evening was hot and humid so by the time I got to my workout I was tired and weak.

These sorts of day-to-day ups and downs from how much sleep you've had, the time of day, ordinary life events, they are going to have a much bigger effect on you than whether you take L-gamma-horseshitamine or whatever is trendy this week.

[Smyth]

Recently I've started taking whey. Essentially, I am too lazy to plan me and my family's meals around getting enough protein in, and I got sick of always eating chicken breast, steak and tins of tuna. I don't mind lots of milk and eggs but being a geezling (in Hurling's taxonomy) I will pudge up fairly easily so don't want too many calories in the form of carbs and fats along with the protein. So whey looks pretty good for this, a few scoops a day plus an otherwise normal diet with no special planning and I've got enough protein to progress.

Apart from creatine the other supplements don't do much anyway. I agree, sleep is the most important. But perhaps I just say that because I've got a three year old son.

What whey product would you recommend? I'm 51, 5'8.5" and in 5 weeks have gone from about 153 lbs to 160 lbs, and feel like too much of it is on my gut. I haven't been very good at tracking the macros or whatever they're called.