Can you progress bench linearly like the squat?

[PDC]

After training for a while I find myself with a 330x5x5 squat and a ~180x5x3 bench press. I want to change that and figure I can make the program bench focused instead of squat focused for a while to fulfill my own personal goal of a 300lb bench.

Basically I'd microload the bench press 2x a week with a light day in the middle of the week(how we treat the squat in advanced novice). I figure that would be the quickest way to increase it at my level, along with proper use of the press and chins while cutting back a bit on the lower body volume and intensity to aid recovery. I'm an intermediate on everything else so I'm more focused on my own specific goals at this point - not more strength/power, unless I decide that's going to help the other areas of my life(like my interests in surfing and fighting) more than actually fighting or actually surfing.

Edit: Just gonna clarify that what I mean by the title is "can you progress bench linearly in the same manner we do the squat." I'm well aware you can increase the bench press in a linear fashion(once or twice a week). I'm gonna keep the title up though, just so I know who to avoid when people inevitably start criticizing my intelligence.

[Gumboots]

I would be interested to see how long you can keep that going. Try it out, and keep us updated. It should work. The Bench Press responds well to increased frequency for most people. Going from 1/2 per week to 3x per week with a light day should give you at least some gains as opposed to regular SS/TM.

[John Hanley]

- Squat is not interfering with bench recovery.

- what does "micro load" mean to you? What have your last few bench sessions looked like?

[Tom Narvaez]

Sure. I just benched 290x5,4,5 and my training partner just benched 320x5x3. We've been increasing 2.5lbs per session on Mon/Fri.

I think there are four primary reasons for "stalling" on LP:
1) You aren't executing the program properly: not enough sleep, poor nutrition, frequent resets that aren't preceded by stalls but rather done for mental relief and/or to "work on form" which isn't even all that bad. This is a catch all for you're doing shit wrong.

2) You aren't recovered in time for your next session. This is VERY common with squats especially during that initial 3x5 3x per week phase. This is usually indicated by a performance regression: I.e. 330x5x3 on Mon and 335x3,2,2 on Wednesday. You couldn't have gotten that much weaker in two days. The problem is your SRA curve is now longer. Advanced novice programming works well here as do any changes which reduce total workload. Now, eventually, if you keep elongating the SRA curve or keep reducing the work load, you'll recover but you won't have done enough to force adaptation which brings us to...

3) You're under training for your current level of adaptation. This is typically marked by stagnation: I.e. 330x5 and then 332.5x4 while you barely miss the fifth. You haven't really gotten any stronger, or at least not 2.5lbs stronger, so you missed the rep. In this case, you may need to increase the workload. For squats and deadlifts, this often simultaneously elongates the SRA curve BUT NOT ALWAYS for all lifts!

People often assume a 5x5 bench automatically needs a full week of recovery. Not so. Especially not at sub-200 bench numbers which are almost always relatively far from the genetic potential of the trainee. If you switch to 5x5 and notice regression then you'll need to elongate the SRA curve by adding a light day or managing fatigue with some basic level of periodization. However, you could possibly continue to stagnate even at 5x5 at some higher number eventually. Now, you'll need to increase workload again. If you notice regression or under recovery in your next session, elongate the SRA curve with TM/Advanced Novice or whatever. If not, if you stagnate again on the next stall, add even more work.

I will say that six truly hard sets of squats is often more than enough to drive progress for a lot of people. It often isn't on bench/press especially when you're not already quite strong.

4) Inappropriate loading. Look, if your level of volume is causing 1lbs of adaptation, but you're loading 2.5lbs or 5lbs above that each session, you'll stall. You have two options: 1) load less aggressively or 2) do enough volume to cause the size of adaptation you're looking for. That choice should be driven by reasonable progression rates. Going for 0.5lbs PRs once weekly on the bench is probably not smart. Increasing workload, and possibly having to adjust programming for a new SRA curve, is better. However, things get trickier when we are not talking about really small jumps.

The prevailing wisdom around here is that anything less than 5lbs per week isn't worth your time as a late novice or early intermediate. I think that's nonsense. Unless you have a 500+ lift, that's greater than 1% per week on your e1RM. Expecting that is really too much even on squats and deadlifts, IMO.

I don't have good rules for this yet. In the past, my solution was very small jumps (1-2lbs) but also include a rep range so that progress is somewhat auto regulated. However, novices can't handle rep ranges because they don't know how to use RPEs correctly. So now I default to resetting and usually smaller increment jumps after each reset (or at my discretion which I obviously can't transfer to anyone else in terms of judgement).

I'd probably suggest going for a longer SRA curve that gets you at least 2.5 weekly before loading less than ~1.5-2lbs per bench session on a twice weekly LP.

Of course, all of this assumes that you'd prefer to keep LP going which is not strictly necessary. There is always the riskier option of more advanced programming or just a different kind altogether. The risk is you may not progress at all. The potential reward is that you progress MUCH faster than on LP -- especially if you've been under training significantly and the new program rectifies that.

[hamburgerfan]

I think your plan will probably work, but it's far from the only option. Increasing the volume and frequency should be the important part in my opinion, regardless of whether or not you're trying to progress linearly every workout. One of my buddies just increased his bench from 225 to 260 in a few weeks using this program. When my bench press was at its strongest, I was benching fairly heavy 3 days a week (5 submaximal sets from 70-80%, and one rep out set at the same weight.) I think you're probably just not doing enough bench work.

[dhalli]

Sure. I just benched 290x5,4,5 and my training partner just benched 320x5x3. We've been increasing 2.5lbs per session on Mon/Fri.

I think there are four primary reasons for "stalling" on LP:
1) You aren't executing the program properly: not enough sleep, poor nutrition, frequent resets that aren't preceded by stalls but rather done for mental relief and/or to "work on form" which isn't even all that bad. This is a catch all for you're doing shit wrong.

2) You aren't recovered in time for your next session. This is VERY common with squats especially during that initial 3x5 3x per week phase. This is usually indicated by a performance regression: I.e. 330x5x3 on Mon and 335x3,2,2 on Wednesday. You couldn't have gotten that much weaker in two days. The problem is your SRA curve is now longer. Advanced novice programming works well here as do any changes which reduce total workload. Now, eventually, if you keep elongating the SRA curve or keep reducing the work load, you'll recover but you won't have done enough to force adaptation which brings us to...

3) You're under training for your current level of adaptation. This is typically marked by stagnation: I.e. 330x5 and then 332.5x4 while you barely miss the fifth. You haven't really gotten any stronger, or at least not 2.5lbs stronger, so you missed the rep. In this case, you may need to increase the workload. For squats and deadlifts, this often simultaneously elongates the SRA curve BUT NOT ALWAYS for all lifts!

People often assume a 5x5 bench automatically needs a full week of recovery. Not so. Especially not at sub-200 bench numbers which are almost always relatively far from the genetic potential of the trainee. If you switch to 5x5 and notice regression then you'll need to elongate the SRA curve by adding a light day or managing fatigue with some basic level of periodization. However, you could possibly continue to stagnate even at 5x5 at some higher number eventually. Now, you'll need to increase workload again. If you notice regression or under recovery in your next session, elongate the SRA curve with TM/Advanced Novice or whatever. If not, if you stagnate again on the next stall, add even more work.

I will say that six truly hard sets of squats is often more than enough to drive progress for a lot of people. It often isn't on bench/press especially when you're not already quite strong.

4) Inappropriate loading. Look, if your level of volume is causing 1lbs of adaptation, but you're loading 2.5lbs or 5lbs above that each session, you'll stall. You have two options: 1) load less aggressively or 2) do enough volume to cause the size of adaptation you're looking for. That choice should be driven by reasonable progression rates. Going for 0.5lbs PRs once weekly on the bench is probably not smart. Increasing workload, and possibly having to adjust programming for a new SRA curve, is better. However, things get trickier when we are not talking about really small jumps.

The prevailing wisdom around here is that anything less than 5lbs per week isn't worth your time as a late novice or early intermediate. I think that's nonsense. Unless you have a 500+ lift, that's greater than 1% per week on your e1RM. Expecting that is really too much even on squats and deadlifts, IMO.

I don't have good rules for this yet. In the past, my solution was very small jumps (1-2lbs) but also include a rep range so that progress is somewhat auto regulated. However, novices can't handle rep ranges because they don't know how to use RPEs correctly. So now I default to resetting and usually smaller increment jumps after each reset (or at my discretion which I obviously can't transfer to anyone else in terms of judgement).

I'd probably suggest going for a longer SRA curve that gets you at least 2.5 weekly before loading less than ~1.5-2lbs per bench session on a twice weekly LP.

Of course, all of this assumes that you'd prefer to keep LP going which is not strictly necessary. There is always the riskier option of more advanced programming or just a different kind altogether. The risk is you may not progress at all. The potential reward is that you progress MUCH faster than on LP -- especially if you've been under training significantly and the new program rectifies that.

I have never read anything that's made me want to bench, more than this. Seriously want to go bench right now...

For what it's worth, my bench was continually stalling with 3x5 once/twice per week on SS, but cruising right along benching twice/week on TM (volume day, intensity day + back off sets).

[PDC]

I have never read anything that's made me want to bench, more than this. Seriously want to go bench right now...

For what it's worth, my bench was continually stalling with 3x5 once/twice per week on SS, but cruising right along benching twice/week on TM (volume day, intensity day + back off sets).

My bench was stalling as well with 1/2x a week.

[indigo]

@TomNarveaz, great posting !

[dhalli]

What's your bench programming on TM? Do you put bench as a priority one week, and then OHP the next? If yes, I suspect it will slow too soon as well.

Switching to 3x/week has gotten me back on track along with a lot of volume. But I'm old with shoulder problems.

I Dom Mazzetti the bench! and seriously lag on OHP, despite my cranky old shoulders that OHP would clearly help with.

Monday bench volume (5x5)
Thursday bench ID + a couple drop sets, close grip BP, OHP 3x5 (and I tend to skip it too often)

I'd kinda like to add a light day in there as well. Maybe when things start getting harder... or move OHP to Saturday and follow it with light bench, if my shoulders can hang with the volume.

On SS I was stalled 3x5 @ 205, 1RM was an imbalanced grinder at 230 at the end of December
5x5 @ 210 is refreshingly easy now, last 1RM was 260 and it wasn't a grinder.
Not stellar progress, but I'm happy with it.

For context:
I'm 42, male, 215lb and i love tacos

[dhalli]

That's good work. I'm full bench bro now, hitting less weight for mega-swole.

I thought you might be running an A/B mix on BP and OHP. That method is tougher to keep going.

I didn't like the A/B mix on SS... just ran with it because that was the program. Admittedly my shoulders were a little happier then, but what do they know?

I've been doing post ID drop sets in the 8-10 rep range, for the swole. I skipped them last night due to time constraints, and feel like it was a mistake not doing them. My inner bro is saying "bro, do you even lift?"... wait, I mean "add 3x8 bench on Saturdays, bro"