Examining my weight loss - good/bad ratios.

[Adam Levine]

Okay, I'm finally done losing weight (lost 70lb). I lost that weight in two phases, and anticipate needing to lose in a third phase after I'm done with NLP.

My question is, what should I expect in a "cut cycle" and how would I improve on what I did the second time?

Phase 1: Got notice from doctor I had all kinds of obesity-related maladies. Took general advice of lose weight and get exercise and did it in mass-market fashion, with cardio classes.
Lost 40lb, Apx 32lb fat and 8-10lb LBM (25% of weight lost was LBM)
Lost apx 10lb/month on 1200-1600 calorie diet. Didn't track macros, but I naturally gravitate to low-fat, high-protein when dieting. I love my protein.
Weight loss was rapid - about 10lb/month.

Phase 2: Gave up on the $%&#* cardio classes that gave me three overuse injuries and made me feel like *#it. Started strength training, first with machines, then dumbbells, then found SS and started on barbells with terrible form.
Lost 30lb, Apx 28lb fat and 2-3lb LBM (10% of weight lost was LBM)
High protien (190g+), low fat (40g-), and moderate carb (100-150g) diet. About 1600-1900 calories per day.
Weight loss was slower, about 5lb/month.

I read that if you cut correctly, you shouldn't lose LBM at all. I didn't do that. What did I do wrong? Other than the obvious of starting by cutting, which SS doesn't generally recommend. I would prefer not to lose any LBM I can gain during NLP.

-->Adam

[Fulcrum]

How tall are you? age? current lifts in 5RMs or 1RMs?
What was your weight before "phase 1 & 2" ?
What is your weight now ?

all the pluses, minuses, percentages, LBMs, etc. are hard to follow.

[Tony Patriarca]

Greetings:

Everything I have read in association with Starting Strength says that you always gain muscle and fat at the same time and that you always lose muscle and fat at the same time. You can skew the proportions by how you eat and how you exercise, but it will never be 100/0. I would think that 90/10 is about as close as you will get.

I am also a former fat-boy, so my weight gain after cutting advice is: do not act like a skinny teenager. I would raise your calories and macros slowly week by week and I would measure how your body is adapting to the new diet. If you try to go all GOMEM (gallon of milk every meal) your body will bulk, bulk right back to where you started.

At least that is my $0.02.

[DoinFives]

At one time I went from 272 lbs to 164 lbs. That was probably around five years ago. Since then I’ve for the most part kept to be around 195 lbs. When i did NLP I went from about 172 to about 210.

I have gained and lost many times. What Ive learned is if you lose body weight, you are going to lose strength and LBM whether you like it or not. On the flip side, if you gain weight while lifting, not near as much of it as you would like will become muscle.

PS: I think you are to aggressive in your weight loss, but thats just me.

[Adam Levine]

Greetings:

Everything I have read in association with Starting Strength says that you always gain muscle and fat at the same time and that you always lose muscle and fat at the same time. You can skew the proportions by how you eat and how you exercise, but it will never be 100/0. I would think that 90/10 is about as close as you will get.

I am also a former fat-boy, so my weight gain after cutting advice is: do not act like a skinny teenager. I would raise your calories and macros slowly week by week and I would measure how your body is adapting to the new diet. If you try to go all GOMEM (gallon of milk every meal) your body will bulk, bulk right back to where you started.

At least that is my $0.02.

At one time I went from 272 lbs to 164 lbs. That was probably around five years ago. Since then I’ve for the most part kept to be around 195 lbs. When i did NLP I went from about 172 to about 210.

I have gained and lost many times. What Ive learned is if you lose body weight, you are going to lose strength and LBM whether you like it or not. On the flip side, if you gain weight while lifting, not near as much of it as you would like will become muscle.

PS: I think you are to aggressive in your weight loss, but thats just me.

Weight loss is over - going to do NLP, and gaining is part of the plan. I'm at about 16%bf now, which is simply too low for my age. I intentionally went a little low so I would have a be able to gain weight on NLP without becoming obese. Next time, maybe I'll go slower with the loss.

Good to know that the boasts on the internet that you can cut without any LBM loss may be wrong. It makes sense, and if I can lose 90% fat when cutting, and gain 40% muscle when bulking, that would most certainly be a win.

[vegasjack]

I definitely wouldn't say the idea that retaining all LBM is possible/pragmatic is a good one to hold. When cutting you will almost always lose LBM in trained individuals. The cases where this wouldn't apply are the extremes--an elderly person exercises to regain bone density and strength, a brand new strength trainee, etc.

The best option is to just increase protein intake (see study: A high-protein diet for reducing body fat: mechanisms and possible caveats) and reduce weight at an appropriate pace (200-300 calorie deficit/day for a loss of 2-3 pounds per week).

Now that you're gaining this doesn't apply, but things to consider for your next cut.

[Devyn Stewart]

Now for my $0.02 if you don't mind. I think you're putting too much thought into the numbers and how exactly all of this is being done. I used to do this exact thing when I was in more of the bodybuilding circles and thought I had to see my abs to be healthy and strong. It has been my experience that the people you want to be like who are very strong and healthy don't take this approach. Focus on getting strong and using nutrition as your vehicle for doing so. Get your protein where it needs to be (1g/lb of body weight is the general recommendation here), then slowly increase carbs as you're getting stronger. Focus on things like waist circumference rather than body fat percentage. We're more interested in health and strength here, and the "aesthetics" will come very slowly over the course of many years of pursuing those goals. You're on the right track!

TL;DR: If I were you, I'd stop thinking of cutting and bulking. Gain weight when you need to gain weight and don't when you don't.