When to switch to phase 2

[James7]

i've been doing stage 1 for about 4 weeks but had to repeat a week due to illness.

IMG_5744.jpg

My DL is now getting grindy compared to the other lifts which seems to be the point when I should switch to phase 2, is that correct?

Press is very weak so i've bought fractional plates.

I still feel there's plenty of room to keep increasing squat and BP.

On Andy Baker's forum however he recommends barbell rows instead of PC's given my age (47).

Is this something i should consider as SSBBT states rows are absolutely not a substitute for PC's?

Cheers,
James.

[Dale Waters]

You should switch to phase 2 and micro loading fairly quickly.

Re. Power Cleans v. Rows, there's no need to pit coaches against each other. Instead, consider why PCs might be beneficial. Then consider why rows might be beneficial. Ponder what might justify forgoing one for the other. Then decide what would be wisest given your previous conclusions. If you don't get the result you want, determine what went wrong and try something different.

[James7]

Hi Dale,

Thanks for the response.

I am in no way trying to pit coaches, but given my novice status and lack of knowledge in this field, I merely seek the progression advice of those qualified re PC's or rows.

I haven't read The Barbell Prescription, but am familiar with SSBBT which advocates PC's over rows but perhaps not for someone my age or with with my low numbers?

Cheers.

[Mike Troxell]

James

Hard time seeing the numbers, what is your weight and lifts? Couple options before micro loading and PC's or accessory exercise.

Mike

[wiigelec]

I don't think it has ever been said not to do rows instead of power cleans. "Rows are not a substitute for power cleans" is a different statement with a different meaning than "don't do rows". Rows are not suitable for expressing power. If you have no reason or desire to display power then do rows instead of power cleans.

I don't think Rip and Andy will fight over it.

Also can you please expound on the "Stage 1" and "Stage 2" you are referring to? Thanks...

[James7]

I'm 6ft, skinny, started at 185lb, and haven't used weights for 15 years. Progress is as follows:

S 40-70KG

P 22.5-30KG (failed once at 30KG)

BP 35-45KG

D 50-100KG

Weight now 191lb.

By phase 2 I mean substituting DL's for PC's on workout B.

Cheers.

[Dale Waters]

I'd encourage you to try the power clean. I'm not very coordinated and I didn't find it to be a terrible challenge to get the form down.

If you really can't figure it out or think you need more heavy pulling, I'd add in a light deadlift day, as that is basically what a clean is. Rows are fine, but they don't do the same thing as power cleans. Both cleans and light deadlifts allow you to practice the setup and general pulling mechanics for the deadlift.

Happy lifting!

DISCLAIMER: Not an SSC, nor do I play one on TV.

[wiigelec]

By phase 2 I mean substituting DL's for PC's on workout B.

It's not really meant to be done in "phases" or "stages". Generally speaking if you stop making progress on a lift you need to change things up. Not making progress means missing reps this early in the game.

My DL is now getting grindy

The deadlift is a grindy lift. When you stop making progress pulling heavy three times a week introduce a light day. Personally I would do 2x5 at ~80% of your last work set. Unless you are a competitive athlete and your power clean is generally somewhere north of 50% of your deadlift there is really no compelling reason to do power cleans unless you really want to, but they probably won't do anything to drive progress on your deadlift...

Minimum Effective Dose for Maximum Strength, Part 2 | Matt Reynolds

[James7]

Thanks Dale. I haven't done a PC before, do you think this is something that requires a coach or can be self taught?

[Mike Troxell]

Thanks Dale. I haven't done a PC before, do you think this is something that requires a coach or can be self taught?

You are deadlifting 220lbs, weigh 191lbs, and you think you need to switch to power cleans? How did you draw this conclusion? If you were deadlifting 320 or more...maybe that would be a good option. (probably not at your age though) If you want to do PC's to learn the movement, have at it. But the reason for switching to a PC is to provide the lifter a lower stress between days 1 and 3 to dissipate fatigue, not because it causes the most stress. You are no where near needing power cleans in your programming. Strength training is force production, a 230lb deadlift requires a lot more force than a 65lb power clean.

Here are a couple suggestions: Follow the program. Eat, we are the same height, close in age and I weigh 30lbs more. Add weight to every workout and ask yourself the "first three questions." (The First Three Questions | Mark Rippetoe)

When you truly get fatigued because of the weight, probably around 315lbs (or more), add a midweek light day at 85%. After that, there are couple more options described in the MED Article linked earlier.

Good luck!