Rolling Deadlift?

[hatmanii]

While it's hard to argue against the methods and results of people like Jouko Ahola and Benedikt Magnusson, you have to remember that these people are genetic freaks and are/were one of the best (The Best, in Jouko's case) at their respective sports.

You would think that copying these two in regards to the deadlift would be a good thing, alas it probably isn't.

[Krump]

While it's hard to argue against the methods and results of people like Jouko Ahola and Benedikt Magnusson, you have to remember that these people are genetic freaks and are/were one of the best (The Best, in Jouko's case) at their respective sports.

You would think that copying these two in regards to the deadlift would be a good thing, alas it probably isn't.

Can you substantiate this statement? Are you implying that Ahola and Magnusson are so gifted that they are world class dead-lifters despite a technical flaw? Because it seems to me - at this point in their careers - they are deliberately "rolling" the bar and in Jouko's case he explicitly states why. Of course it would be folly to see someone do something and assume you possess the same conditions to do it yourself, but it seems Ahola and Magnusson have a practical reason for doing what they do, and I wouldn't mind hearing an explanation for why they do it.

[Sami]

I see it fairly often.

But one quick question. How much does this differ from they way you've coached the press? Some of your vids show you tilting back slightly, then with a little forward thrust, initiate the lift. In both cases, a little horizontal momentum is used to get things moving. In both cases, the bar/body seem to be in the same position as starting from a dead stop.

I don't think the rolling deadlift is a good idea for non-advanced lifters as it's too easy to get into the wrong position before pulling, and it must be very difficult to get tight enough before pulling. This suggests to me a very advanced technique.

What am I over looking?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Of course it would be folly to see someone do something and assume you possess the same conditions to do it yourself, but it seems Ahola and Magnusson have a practical reason for doing what they do, and I wouldn't mind hearing an explanation for why they do it.

I would too.

And our method -- as well as Starr's -- does not involve any horizontal movement of the BAR.

[mstrofbass]

Can you substantiate this statement? Are you implying that Ahola and Magnusson are so gifted that they are world class dead-lifters despite a technical flaw? Because it seems to me - at this point in their careers - they are deliberately "rolling" the bar and in Jouko's case he explicitly states why. Of course it would be folly to see someone do something and assume you possess the same conditions to do it yourself, but it seems Ahola and Magnusson have a practical reason for doing what they do, and I wouldn't mind hearing an explanation for why they do it.

Seems no reason a placebo effect or some kind of cuing effect wouldn't explain it. The first is probably self-explanatory. The second, I can imagine a situation in which it's easier for a person to get their mind prepped to pull at a specified instance, e.g., when the bar rolls back, that's somewhat out of their control rather than at an instance when they they have to make the "decision" to pull. Or, instead of getting set and having a split second where they could be distracted, the rolling bar keeps them "active," and their attention and focus on the bar.

I'm just pulling shit out of my ass, but those all seem like a reasonable explanation.

[Tom Campitelli]

But one quick question. How much does this differ from they way you've coached the press? Some of your vids show you tilting back slightly, then with a little forward thrust, initiate the lift. In both cases, a little horizontal momentum is used to get things moving.

That's not the primary reason to lean back when you start a press. You want to get your head out of the way to let the bar travel in as straight a line as possible. Horizontal motion does not translate into vertical motion without something to redirect the force - like a ramp.

[astanto2]

There's an easy analogy to this. Have you ever watched Julio Franco hit a baseball? He starts with the bat over his head and pointed directly at the pitcher. It looks absurd. He played in the majors as a professional hitter until he was 72,000 years old.

Now, question: Should we teach little leaguers to point the bat at the pitcher?

[Randle McMurphy]

Magnusson is no loonier than lots of other lifters, and he's one of the best 5 deadlifters in history. He can roll the bar around in the parking lot if he wants to, but note that he still has to pull the bar up from the same place everybody else does.

lol, I guess i'm too much of a stiff upper lipped brit - expecting more reserved antics like bolton etc lol.

Actually it is interesting to see the difference in styles of bolton and magnusson. They both start the lift in similar positions, but i think magnusson shoulders stay over the bar for longer (i think because he locks his knees out once the bar clears his knees?)

Magnusson is still young too, so there is a possibility he will beat boltons record

[hatmanii]

Can you substantiate this statement? Are you implying that Ahola and Magnusson are so gifted that they are world class dead-lifters despite a technical flaw? Because it seems to me - at this point in their careers - they are deliberately "rolling" the bar and in Jouko's case he explicitly states why. Of course it would be folly to see someone do something and assume you possess the same conditions to do it yourself, but it seems Ahola and Magnusson have a practical reason for doing what they do, and I wouldn't mind hearing an explanation for why they do it.

Rip already pointed out the fact that they still initiate the lift in the same place that everyone does. Maybe it's a placebo, maybe it's how they were taught initially, maybe they do it that way in spite of it not being as efficient. I don't know. I was simply alluding to the same situation that astanto2 describes below.

There's an easy analogy to this. Have you ever watched Julio Franco hit a baseball? He starts with the bat over his head and pointed directly at the pitcher. It looks absurd. He played in the majors as a professional hitter until he was 72,000 years old.

Now, question: Should we teach little leaguers to point the bat at the pitcher?

Moises Alou is another MLB player with quite the unorthodox batting stance/approach that still got very good results. Maybe it's just what works for them? But do remember that in both of these cases (deadlifting and baseball) we are dealing with upper echelon athletes who in fact have overcome (or succeeded in spite of) what is considered to be a traditional approach in form to their respective sports.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Every sport has many examples of people who are extremely good at doing things "wrong". They can reproduce what is technically an inefficient movement pattern with a high degree of precision, and have the strength and power to make it work better than their competitors. That does not mean that their skills are the most efficient, but it does mean that it works for them.