Olympic Lifting

[some guy]

Hey, Coach Rip. I registered specifically to ask you a few questions regarding OL. I have seen the videos of you coaching up / instructing SN & clean technique but haven't heard anything in regards to programming. So:

1) Do you plan on publishing a book or anything based on practical programming for lifters who were focused on olympic weightlifting solely?
2) How would you program a lifter with an intermediate type of strength level based on your standards?

All in all, my main question is how would you prepare a lifter. Would you do a lot of assistance-variations to improve the lifts like the Russians (or Louie & Westside in PL), max everything out + volume like the Bulgarians, focus on improving the squat with adequate practice of the two lifts in between, or a combination of all of the above?

I was interested in getting your opinion on programming. I have been wondering your thoughts on it all.

[Mark Rippetoe]

1. No weightlifting book is planned.

2. I usually recommend a 4-5 day/week program, with the 2 lifts done 2-3x/week and basic strength stuff 2x/week. The deadlift and the bench press alternate every other week, squat is done 2x/week, front squats are added, presses are done 1x/week. Since the Olympic lifts are an excellent way to display strength but not very efficient at building it, the program is still based on squat/press/deadlift/bench press progress which pulls the 2 lifts up with it, doing enough practice on the 2 lifts to incorporate and efficiently utilize your strength.

[Misciagno]

Awesome -- a strength-based, O-lifting framework to transition to once the TM gains begin to slow. Thanks Rip!

[some guy]

Something like this by chance:

Monday: Back Squat 3x5, Bench 1x5 (every other week)
Tuesday: Snatch, C+J
Wed: Front Squat 3x3, Press 3x5
Thurs: Snatch, C+J
Fri: Back Squat 3x5, Deadlift 1x5 (every other week)

How's an outline like that look? Do I have the rep schemes for the strength lifts right? If not, what would you recommend? Also, how would you do the two lifts? 5 sets of 3 for C+J seems like it would be a daunting task and a lot of effort.

I know you're not being compensated to clarify so no big deal if you don't feel the need to...

[Mark Rippetoe]

Looks okay. The snatch and C&J like to be trained with singles and occasionally doubles. We usually single up to a miss, back off 10 and go back up 2.5@ to another miss for heavy day. The other day would be 15 singles at about 80% on the minute for the snatch, 10 singles on 90 sec for the C&J.

[Akif]

1. No weightlifting book is planned.

2. I usually recommend a 4-5 day/week program, with the 2 lifts done 2-3x/week and basic strength stuff 2x/week. The deadlift and the bench press alternate every other week, squat is done 2x/week, front squats are added, presses are done 1x/week. Since the Olympic lifts are an excellent way to display strength but not very efficient at building it, the program is still based on squat/press/deadlift/bench press progress which pulls the 2 lifts up with it, doing enough practice on the 2 lifts to incorporate and efficiently utilize your strength.

Mark, if the olympic lifts are not efficient at building strength, why are they recommended for novices, whose priority is strength acquisition? Just wondering, since I'll be starting soon.

[Tamara Reynolds]

Something like this by chance:

Monday: Back Squat 3x5, Bench 1x5 (every other week)
Tuesday: Snatch, C+J
Wed: Front Squat 3x3, Press 3x5
Thurs: Snatch, C+J
Fri: Back Squat 3x5, Deadlift 1x5 (every other week)

I would consider three changes to the above:
1) Swap days so that you are doing your SS lifts the day BEFORE your Oly lifts, and then
2) Get rid of front squats to start (for a few weeks) until you see how your back squats are going, and move press to your back squat/deadlift day, therefore giving yourself an extra rest day, OR
3) Move front squats to one of your Oly days and do them right after your C&Js. Simply start your first triple at a weight slightly higher than your last clean. Still move press to your back squat/deadlift to give yourself the extra rest day.

I say this because I have been doing something similar for the last 2 months based on some of Rip's recommendations. Make linear progression on your squats your priority, and make front squats secondary for a while. It is a lot to recover from and still make progress. I've blown up my low bar squat, and that has caused all of my Oly lifts to go through the roof. I am just now switching to two days of front squats and one day of squats because I can rack more than I can reliably get out of the hole on my cleans (my squat is 220 but my last front squat was only 170).

Also, are you planning to low bar squat or high bar?

[some guy]

Thanks, Coach. You have been extremely helpful and giving me some great insight. It's very much appreciated.

[Randle McMurphy]

We usually single up to a miss, back off 10 and go back up 2.5@ to another miss for heavy day.

Could you clarify what you mean by this? Do you mean you work up to a single miss, then pull it back by 10%? then increase in 2.5% incriments until you miss again?

Or do you mean, you work up to a miss, then pull it back by 10kg, then work back up in 2.5kg incriments to another miss?

The other day would be 15 singles at about 80% on the minute for the snatch, 10 singles on 90 sec for the C&J.

How necessary is it to perform snatches/CJ on the minute/minute and half??
In my gym there is only one platform, and although large, it normally means i am sharing it with someone, making it hard to do this.
Would it still work just to do 10/15 singles without the timing? Or is the accumulating fatigue by doing it on the clock required for growth?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Mark, if the olympic lifts are not efficient at building strength, why are they recommended for novices, whose priority is strength acquisition? Just wondering, since I'll be starting soon.

I don't recommend them for novices. Why have you not started already?

I am just now switching to two days of front squats and one day of squats because I can rack more than I can reliably get out of the hole on my cleans (my squat is 220 but my last front squat was only 170).

I guess lots of people would observe that this is because you are doing these sillyass LBBSs. Just so I could say it first.

Or do you mean, you work up to a miss, then pull it back by 10kg, then work back up in 2.5kg incriments to another miss?

This, yes.

How necessary is it to perform snatches/CJ on the minute/minute and half??
In my gym there is only one platform, and although large, it normally means i am sharing it with someone, making it hard to do this.
Would it still work just to do 10/15 singles without the timing? Or is the accumulating fatigue by doing it on the clock required for growth?

It's not necessary. It's just what I like to do here. He asked me and I told him. It works because we can make technique corrections in a timeframe that allows the lifter to immediately see how the correction feels one rep to the next, due to the proximity of the reps. The load is light enough to permit this, and heavy enough that it can't be done too terribly wrong. Then the corrections are incorporated into the next workout, which is heavier.