Vegetarian Rugby Player

[wes]

Thanks for a lucid, first hand account from ground zero of this issue. We armchair philosophizers and mental masturbators appreciate the real world facts and perspective you bring.

Does that diet consist of nothing but 4ounces of meat? Seems a little...puny, no? Give us the deets.

I am having trouble finding and accessing this study because I don't remember what journal it was in (maybe Agriculture and Human Values) and I'm no longer able to freeload off of the University or California database without heading out to one of their libraries.

But here is the general idea:

- Yes, the the rest of the 2000ish calories come from veg, fruit, grain, and probably tubers. I don't recall the specific ratio recommended for them because it wasn't the significant part of the study.
- The problem with the 90% energy loss between trophic levels is negated when animals don't eat people food. Cows, sheep, goats, etc eat roughage. Pigs forage well too.
- Animals can and should be put to pasture on land that is not suitable for row crops. This includes low fertility, low water access, and hilly areas. This IMPROVES the quality of the land because these ecosystems evolved in conjuction with grazing animals. Nutrient cycling happens via manure and fire. Every grassland needs a grazing animal, duh.
- Meat produced on marginal lands is energy dense and has complete proteins
- Adding energy dense complete proteins and fat to a diet lessens the amount of plants people need to eat which lessens the amount of prime land needed for cultivation.
- It requires almost no fossil fuels to graze an animal, it requires plenty for me to run my tractor.

I can go on and on about this so I'll just stop here.

Everything went wrong when the midwest stopped growing grass and started growing corn. Bison used to roam on grasslands that stretched from Canada to Mexico. That is never going to happen again. Cows are a good analogue for bison though and there is plenty of corn acreage that would turn back into grassland if people stopped fucking with it.

If anyone is really interested in how modern agriculture should work you should look up Polyface Farms. Joel Salatin is the Mark Rippetoe of agriculture.

[sand]

I was a vegetarian for 16 years, and stopped in May, when I started SS. I still only eat poultry and fish (plus taking creatine), and have made decent progress. Maybe I could have made even more progress eating red meat, very possible... At some point I will go back to a vegetarian diet.

In those 16 years I never craved meat. Not one time! The reason I do it is not compassion (since I believe animals are inferior to humans). It's because I'm a new age freak. Well...not really... but I do yoga, and a vegetarian diet is recommended (not required).

I'm a conservative, heavy metal guitar player, gun loving SoCal new age loon. Kind of full of contradictions. I'm not bothered by meat eaters and hunters. I just don't feel any need for meat. Never had. But I eat it now for SS and I guess it helps.

Thanks for SS, Coach, and look forward to your Costa Mesa seminar.

[Carlos Daniel]

While there are compelling reasons, training-wise, to eat animal flesh, I don't think eating red meat specifically is of increased benefit other than taste.

[tertius]

The last thing an obese couch-sitter needs is a 12oz rib-eye (this coming from someone who used to be that obese couch-sitter).

Actually, it seems rather likely that an idle couch sitter who ate more steaks would probably be less of a fat-ass than one who lived on cheap carbs. Like the typical couch-sitter.

Insects are the latest thing I've seen proposed as a lower-impact protein source. I'm skeptical as to any kind of culinary trend, as it seems most cultures lack a big repertoire of insect recipes despite insects having existed, AFAIK, as long as we have. I would, though, totally be interested in cheap protein powders made from our crunchy friends.

Eh, this is because many cultures that eat bugs don't bother with a lot of preparation. Mostly they just eat them, maybe toast them. Koreans still eat silk worm grubs in bars like peanuts, I gather. And you can find bags of bugs for sale in Mexico, and all over Southeast Asia.

http://www.weird-food.com/weird-food-bugs.html

[PressesPeople]

I was a vegetarian for 16 years, and stopped in May, when I started SS. I still only eat poultry and fish (plus taking creatine), and have made decent progress. Maybe I could have made even more progress eating red meat, very possible... At some point I will go back to a vegetarian diet.

In those 16 years I never craved meat. Not one time! The reason I do it is not compassion (since I believe animals are inferior to humans). It's because I'm a new age freak. Well...not really... but I do yoga, and a vegetarian diet is recommended (not required).

I'm a conservative, heavy metal guitar player, gun loving SoCal new age loon. Kind of full of contradictions. I'm not bothered by meat eaters and hunters. I just don't feel any need for meat. Never had. But I eat it now for SS and I guess it helps.

Thanks for SS, Coach, and look forward to your Costa Mesa seminar.

You bother the fuck out of me for multiple reasons. Main one is WHY you're a veggie. You don't have to believe they're equal to have compassion for them, you moron. Also, who the fuck doesn't like meat? I don't eat it because I feel bad, not because I don't crave it. Yoga...

Did I mention that you call yourself a "new age loon"?

[Eric K]

You bother the fuck out of me for multiple reasons. Main one is WHY you're a veggie. You don't have to believe they're equal to have compassion for them, you moron. Also, who the fuck doesn't like meat? I don't eat it because I feel bad, not because I don't crave it. Yoga...

Did I mention that you call yourself a "new age loon"?

Did someone say that meat eaterswere hostile towards vegetarians??

[sand]

You bother the fuck out of me for multiple reasons. Main one is WHY you're a veggie. You don't have to believe they're equal to have compassion for them, you moron. Also, who the fuck doesn't like meat? I don't eat it because I feel bad, not because I don't crave it. Yoga...

I sense a lot of suppressed emotions with you. You feel guilty for craving something that you consider forbidden. You should resolve that conflict in your life. It will help your lifts.

...............

Not bad analysis, eh? You would have payed over 100 bucks at a shrink for that. Here, it's all free. Don't you love SS?

I have compassion for animals. I have even greater compassion for "morons" who have unresolved issues. It just doesn't bother me when I see one on a plate. (A four-legged animal, that is. The two-legged kind would be kind of gross).

who the fuck doesn't like meat?

I sense strooong envy. Cha-ching, another 100 bucks saved. Damn, this SS thing IS a bargain.

I have a nephew who simply can't believe that some grown-ups don't care for marshmallows. Wait, is that you, Matthew, behind pressesP?

[Kregna]

I'm starting to find this thread kind of funny lol

[Animelee]

I'm vegan. I was vegetarian from the ages of 20 to 22, and then went vegan. I'm 25 now. 6'5", 197 lbs (I know... I need to get up there. I was 165 lbs last year). Compassion and ethical reasons are mine.

When I was a teenager, I read these articles, and even now, I cannot argue with them. You're lying to yourself if you're vegan/vegetarian and think your diet is helping: http://web.archive.org/web/200411070...ood/vegan.html & http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=grill

[wes]

I'm vegan. I was vegetarian from the ages of 20 to 22, and then went vegan. I'm 25 now. 6'5", 197 lbs (I know... I need to get up there. I was 165 lbs last year). Compassion and ethical reasons are mine.

When I was a teenager, I read these articles, and even now, I cannot argue with them. You're lying to yourself if you're vegan/vegetarian and think your diet is helping: http://web.archive.org/web/200411070...ood/vegan.html & http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=grill

If you had chimed in with this earlier you could have saved me a lot of time.