What would you consider an injury that calls for not lifting for a while

[Irishman301]

Unfortunately doctors (my doctor at least), personal trainers , and just about everyone else I know would tell me that you're supposed to rest when something is hurting. I don't consider the personal trainers at my gym worthy to offer advice to anyone (well, actually it's my old gym now since I found a little hole-in-the wall, non-crowded, 3 power rack-having gym - best gym I've ever been to!). Not like I know that much myself, but the personal trainers at the local 'health clubs' are just.....well I'm sure you know the type I'm talking about.

Anyway, given your reputation as being one of the best strength training coaches for novices, I would take your advice over anyone else's that I have available to me. My question is about injuries, or what is defined as a serious injury.

Since I started lifting 'heavy' about 5 months ago, as opposed to just lifting moderately heavy, I started getting aches and pains in my joints. My knees are achey underneath the kneecaps after I squat (which I'm sure will has a lot to do with improper form). My shoulders kind of hurt, but not bad enough that I can't move them around (possibly due to rapid growth from all the heavy overhead pressing I've been doing). I had that costal cartilage injury that I posted about 2 weeks ago, which you said should be okay. All types of s*** hurts now and again. None of it keeps me from my scheduled workouts though.

None of these things hurt too badly, but I can tell that it's pain other then normal soreness. The last thing I want to do is to stop lifting or even slow progression, so I just keep lifting anyway, and I'm always very careful. Now I also know that you're supposed to 'listen to your body', but my brain says 'don't be a pussy, and just lift the f***ing weights', and that's just what I do. If I rested everytime I had a little bit of pain, I would never get anywhere.

So what I want to know, are these types of aches and pains fairly typical for people that lift for strength (as opposed to a 'bodybuilder')? And, what would you consider a serious injury that would require one to rehabilitate themselves?

I'm just wondering. It would take a damn serious injury to get me to stop lifting.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I admire your balls, because if you ever want to get anything done you have to have them, and I've got no program for making them grow. As far as I am concerned, a serious injury is a fracture, a ruptured tendon/ligament/muscle belly, something that involves significant loss of blood like a gunshot wound or a bad sword cut, abdominal or orthopedic surgery, or an overuse injury that cannot be warmed up enough to train through. These things you train around, meaning you train everything else that can be trained while leaving the injury alone, so that the system receives stress but the affected tissue does not. This helps things heal. As a general rule, if you train heavy, you will have injuries. Sorry, that's part of the deal. You have to learn which ones to train through, which ones to train around, and how.

Your test is always this: what would happen if this was 10,000 BC? Because as far as the vast majority of your body is concerned, it is. If you broke your femur 12,000 years ago, you either walked on it if you could, or you died. Therefore, if you can use it, you should -- that's what happened then, and it can also happen now. Using myself as an example, I trained 4 days after my appendectomy (when I was younger in 1986), 10 days after my ACL/MCL right knee (1994), 10 days after my C6-7 cervical fusion, 10 days after my hernia repair, 10 days after my septoplasty, and 3 days after a left patellar tendon repair. I didn't do anything stupid (surgery is expensive)(at least not terribly stupid)(maybe just a little stupid), but I trained.

Doctors are much more concerned with not being sued than they are about your speedy functional recovery. So it is your job to test your limits, and to take advice about why you should lay around on your ass for protracted periods of time with a large grain of salt, especially when given by people who themselves don't train..

[Baldr]

Mark, you're an idol. It is my dream to travel down to Wichita Falls and train with you at your gym. Unfortunately, I am not of age and do not have the funds to do so - yet, at least. It's a fuckin shame people living in Wichita Falls, and other places with deserving gyms, would go to the local "GloboGym" as you called it over a training facility such as yours. Bleh, I'm done ranting; afterall, I'm sure we all started off in similar shoes.

[galapogos]

On the same note, how do you tell if an injury can be trained through, or should be trained around? I have had a lower back/hip injury since early 07 that causes pain during trunk flexion, and this has affected my rows, deads and to a lesser degree my squats. I have since switched to DB rows and front squats, which are almost pain free, but heavy deads still hurt. It doesn't hurt enough to cripple me, and I can train through them, but I find that over a couple of weeks/months of training through them it becomes almost disabling, and I have to deload for a week or 2 with plenty of rehab work done for it to become better. Because of this my dead numbers haven't improved since February. Would this be a case where I should probably lay off heavy deads for 1-2 months at least?

[Mark Rippetoe]

No, if a layoff hasn't worked before, why would it work now? Depending on the nature of your injury (do you have a diagnosis?) it is usually best to go through the rehab protocol I wrote about in the earlier thread regarding this topic.

[RWatkins]

Mark, you're an idol. It is my dream to travel down to Wichita Falls and train with you at your gym. Unfortunately, I am not of age and do not have the funds to do so - yet, at least. It's a fuckin shame people living in Wichita Falls, and other places with deserving gyms, would go to the local "GloboGym" as you called it over a training facility such as yours. Bleh, I'm done ranting; afterall, I'm sure we all started off in similar shoes.

That deserves a Hail, yeah! ;-)

At the same time, you wouldn't want all the wimps crowding up the good gym and discussing their restless-leg-syndrome treatment program in front of the olympic platform when you want to lift.

[galapogos]

Actually the layoff worked...until I went back and gradually increased my poundages, then the pain just came back. I've been to several sports doctors, rehab specialists and PTs, and the general concensus seems to be a referred pain from the lumbar spine. The hip, spine & SI joint x-rays came out ok, as well as the hip MRI. My current rehab protocol includes SMFR of the calves, ITB, quads, adductors, lats, piriformis/glutes, TFL, pec minor, stretching the calves, hamstrings, glutes, quads/hip flexors, pecs, ankle/hip mobility drills, glute med/max activation and core work. I've read your rehab protocol at http://strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?t=309 (if that's the right one) but it seems to be for pulls/tears and other muscle belly injuries. I'm not so sure mine is one.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Actually, if the pain came back when you got the weight back up, the layoff didn't work because the injury is still there. I have an idea! Why don't you try the rehab protocol and see if it works??? Ever heard of the "black box"? This might be an example of that principle.

And R knows well that we have no wimps here.