It doesn't matter what you replace GHRs with, because you're not doing the program anyway.
Member
Novice routine for hard gainer; back extension/GHR alternative?
Hello,
I'm a late twenties hard gainer who has had multiple injuries and shit gains despite years of training (playing years of soccer competitively and doing tons of cardiovascular stuff probably didn't help). After tons of physiotherapy, and after purchasing the starting strength and practical programming books and following the programming as much possible, I've started to make some minimal gains. That is to say I can squat, deadlift, press, power clean and incline press without too much issue even though my actual numbers are pretty crappy. At this point I've cut back on cardio and my goal is to just get as strong as my genetics will allow.
I'm currently following the starting strength novice routine. I use high bar back squats instead of low (for a variety of reasons including history of shoulder and back issues that better tolerate the high bar squat) and incline bench instead of flat bench (because of shoulder issues that are aggravated by flat bench. I've gotten to the point where the book calls for switching deadlifts on one of the days with back extensions or GHRs and then alternating deads and power cleans on the other day... but I don't have access to a GHR machine or roman chair.
So what should I replace the GHR/back extensions with? Natural GHRs with my feet attached to a squat rack and mats under my knees or something like RDLs or goodmornings? I've tried doing a search but I haven't been able to find a clear answer for what to do in this situation while on the novice routine. I'm actually seeing some results for the first time in years and I wouldn't want to mess it up by picking the wrong exercise!
thanks so much!
TMPHBITEU
It doesn't matter what you replace GHRs with, because you're not doing the program anyway.
Member
His routine has many moves. I used to have only a few moves in my routine, but as a hard-gainer who has a tendency toward butt-wink in the squat, I transitioned my squat move to the high bar squat move. The addition of other moves to my routine has allowed me to block periodize my splits in order to alternate my routine for both speed-strength and strength-speed gains. Of course, I'm using a 20/4 Warrior Diet and being careful to limit cals to around 1,800 and, of course I do my routine after the NESS Protocol for test boosting. I just feel like these moves are becoming difficult here in Week 3 of your routine and feel like I may not be able to continue much longer.
Please advice.
Member
haha fair enough. For the record, I have osteolysis of the AC joint which is why flat bench and and low bar squat are problematic for my shoulder; I also have a history of back issues and hip issues from soccer, which seem to also better tolerate high bar. I would have loved to follow the program to a T but it just wasn't possible. My shoulder seems to have gotten better though so maybe down the road I'll try to make the switches to flat and low bar, but for now things are working, so I'm hesitant to switch.Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe
I guess I were following the program exactly as prescribed, but couldn't GHR or back extensions, is there a preferred alternative that would do similar tricks but without risk of being too demanding/halting progress/causing injury?
TMPHBITEU
Height/weight/diet?
✓ Member
A suggestion. I suspect you picked up the hard gainer from elsewhere. Lose that thought and label as you have decided it includes you.
Member
5 feet 9 inches/160 lbs/3000 calories/day on average (2500-3500 range)
Thanks for the attempted motivation. I understand where you're coming from.
But getting good gains is a large part genetic I think. I've always wanted to be strong, "jacked", athletic, and I put in a substantial amount of time and effort trying to achieve this goal. I've done tons of reading and research into routines, form, exercise selection, programming; I have tried all sorts of routines throughout the years including various versions of 5x5, westside for skinny bastards etc. But I always ended up with the same result: minimal gains and injury. I would go to my campus gym and see people get the gains I got in like 5 years within 2 months. It got to the point where I just invested in a home gym so that I didn't have to see all these novices destroy me within such a short period of time as it was so discouraging. Of course my efforts in my home gym were basically fruitless.
I sprained my lower back about a dozen times; mechanisms included jogging home as a cool down, kicking a soccer ball, doing squats etc. The underlying cause of the injuries were unclear - maybe a hernaited disk, facet joint issues, SI joint issues you name it; it varied depending on which physiotherapist or sports physician I saw. I've injured my shoulder 5 times (twice from my shoulder subluxing while I was unracking on flat bench!); and now I have osteolysis of the AC joint.
I sprained my hams 3 times (right side twice), achilles tendon, ankles etc playing soccer often from minor stimuli. I actually had to quit soccer because I kept getting injured and the recovery times were longer than they should have been, and it got to the point where I just wanted to "get strong and jacked" instead of being injured all the time from soccer. That didn't go so well as mentioned above.
after 6 years of hard training my best squat was 230lbs for 5, deadlift 235lbs for 5, flat bench 195 lbs for 5, overhead press 135 lbs for 5. I eventually just stopped doing squats, deadlifts and flat bench because I kept having injuries to my back, shoulder and hamstring (and because my doc said that squats and deads were not something I should do). And it's not like I wasn't eating right: 3000 cals/day at least; up to 170g of protein/day
Now, after several years of diligent physiotherapy, gradual loading, and the invaluable help of Mark Rippetoe's books, I've made some progress: high bar back squat is at 245 3x5 (well below parallel but not ATG), press 145 for 5, incline bench 185 for 5, deadlift 307.5 for 5 and powerclean 160 for 5x3 - all with minimal if any pains at this time. But this is after 10 years of blood, sweat and tears.
So I that's why I consider myself a hard gainer. But my recent gains have given me some hope that I haven't totally met my (seemingly very limited) genetic potential for strength and that there may be more to come.
TMPHBITEU
Member
I agree with Hurling. I was a "hard gainer" (5'10" 135#) until I willfully ate more. You have to eat past the point of comfort. It'll suck, but you won't die. You will gain weight. And you will get stronger, if you're doing the Program.
Member
If you're not gaining weight on 3000, you are not doing the program.
No, you've not been training hard for 6-10 years. You were just fucking around doing 5x5 and my guess would be you were undereating the whole time. What a marvelous way to get injured.
Posting Permissions