Deadlift frequency and DL/Squat ratio

[David]

Coach,

I'm a little confused as to how the DL should keep pace with squats using SS if DL and PCs are alternated (eg Onus Wunsler workout). For a two week period, a trainee squats six times and at best deadlifts twice. If we assume a 20 lb increase/session for DL and a 10 lb increase/ session for Squats, this leaves a total increase over two weeks of 40 lbs for DL and 60 lbs for Squats. How is it that deadlift should remain stronger than squats over a period of months (years)? Are my increases per workout off?

Thanks

David

[Mark Rippetoe]

You are assuming that the DL and the squat started off at the same weight, and that would be incorrect. The deadlift for everyone I've ever trained is always about 1.5 to twice as strong as the squat at first, so the squat needs to catch up anyway.

[David]

Not necessarily. Say someone starts out with a 100 lbs squat and 200 lb DL. It would only take five months or so for the squat to reach the DL. Even if rates of weigh increase drops, as long as the ratio of the increase is the same then squats will eventually reach the DL, e.g. go from 10/20 lbs increases to 5/10 lbs increases, because of the difference in frequency.

I'm asking because I currently find myself in a situation where squats are clearly outpacing my DL and in a month or so, will probably surpass them.

Is there some variable I'm missing? Is this self correcting? Do Squats and DL plateau at different times allowing the DL to continue increasing while Squats slow down? (i.e. a change in the ratio of the rates of increase)

Thanks for your time.

David

[Robert Callahan]

Also the 10lb increases for the squat will not last as long as the 20lb incerases for the deadlift. The weight increases will slow for the squat much sooner than deadlift because it is getting heavier faster

[Connor Mc]

^^In line with that, for the average trainee (say, intermediate), what relationship do you tend to find between them? (How much stronger does DL continue to be than the squat, I mean.)

Thanks.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Remember that linear increases slow by 6 months or so for most people, and for essentially everybody in 9 months, so by the time linear increases for the squat have stopped and the deadlift has slowed too, the squat will have approached the deadlift. And most normally proportioned people that have no grip problems and train the deadlift effectively will always pull a little more than they squat without a suit and wraps.

[DOM]

Do you regard it as a problem if they don't? I expect to hit 122.5kg on the squat on Friday, basically intermediate by the strenght standards in PPST, but my deadlift will at best only be 125kg at that stage, which according to the same standards would be a novice weight.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I think it needs an explanation.

[tongzilla]

The deadlift for everyone I've ever trained is always about 1.5 to twice as strong as the squat at first, so the squat needs to catch up anyway.

Using your strength standards table, a 181lb intermediate male lifter has a squat of 269 and a deadlift of 315, not 403.5 (= 269 x 1.5). This is a huge difference.

Please explain.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Please read more carefully. I said specifically "about 1.5 to twice as strong as the squat at first", and you quoted an intermediate standard.