COVID19 Factors We Should Consider/Current Events

[Jason Donaldson]

Tucker recently pointed out the Scofield Bible as a reason the US is so focused on Israel. Anyone an expert on this?

I haven't seen Carlson's specific assertions, but yes, the Scofield Reference Bible, published right at the beginning of the 20th century widely introduced and helped spread a particular approach to the Bible. This approach, known as dispensationalism, has existed in a few different forms, but the Scofield version gained a lot of traction with this publication. One of the distinctions of it that is relevant to this discussion are a very hard distinction held between the (New Testament) church and the nation of Israel. (In the sense of "nation" meaning ethnicity, not meaning a state...) Scofield's view taught that there are unfulfilled Old Testament promises to Israel that will yet come to pass, which are separate from promises to the church in the new (i.e. Christian) covenant.

Scofield's views entail the rebuilding of the Jewish nation, the retaking of the land, the re-establishment of the Temple in Jerusalem, worldwide resistance to the nation, etc. With the foundation of the modern nation state in 1948, most adherents saw this period as an exciting and long anticipated fulfillment. Part and parcel of this is the view that the promise of God to Abraham, "Who blesses you, I shall bless, and who curses you, I shall curse," applies to the ethnic Jews, and to this modern state. With the heavy influence of Scofield's dispensationalism having taken wide hold in what is now sociologically viewed as Evangelical Christianity, and the cultural and political impact of that demographic in the US, this is where you see a lot (though not all) of the American support for Israel, in terms of worldview and thought. To this point of view, blessing the modern Israeli state is aligning with the purposes of God, and will result in the blessings of God on both nations. Likewise, then, to refuse to support the Israeli state would be working counter to God's purposes, and would draw the discipline and curse of God as well.

To be fair, dispensationalism has multiple forms, and not all dispensationalists are Scofield followers. Nor are all American Christians dispensationalists. Not all Israel-supporting Christians are dispensationalists, by any means.

Still, the sociopolitical influence is there, and it remains strong, even though the dispensational structure of thought seems to be declining in recent years. There also remains many forms of cultural Christianity and its influences, including in non-practicing Christians and in the politicians who seek their votes. Furthermore, ideas from one source generally tend to inform other systems of ideas, and the common American default that Israel are the good guys and anyone attacking them are the bad guys has multiple connections both ways.

Cultures are never single variable systems, but yes, it is certainly true that Scofield's dispensationalism is a major factor in US/Israeli politics.

Does that scratch where you itch, Kitsuma?

[anticausal]

Indeed, after the round whistled past his head, he called for unity, like the true political professional he is. If anyone at this point still thinks Trump is remotely outside of the system, or anti-bureaucracy in any way, then I am sorry but you are an idiot. OH WOW ELON MUSK FINALLY CAME OUT AS A MAGA GUY! MARK ZUCKERBERG!!!!

He's figurehead of the less horrible faction. But they're still both pretty horrible, especially when it matters most.

Remember when Dinesh D'Souza became the de facto leader of the "stop the steal" movement, and after the election result came in, he changed his tune. It all became about defining "democracy". Trump just said he "took a bullet for democracy". It always comes back to the belief in democracy.

Yes, Trump is a fag. It should be a crime to be as Boomer as he is.

Most importantly, while you're tied up with the endless conversation, there can be no space to even ask questions like "Why is Zionism central to US politics?". Nobody wants to talk hear about that icky subject when they could be discussing the latest... Event.

Way more people are coming to understand the JQ than in previous decades. There are things so obviously true that making a case for it is extremely easy. Therefore it has to be censored. But that censorship is clearly breaking and the Jews are freaking out.

[wal]

Dispensationalsim as regards to C I Scofield is that Bible prophecy is to be taken literally except where there are symbolic descriptions given such as in the book of Revelation, but the the Nation of Israel is a separate entity from the church as opposed to the idea that the Church has replaced Israel and taken all the OT promises made to them. Since the time of the dispersion of the Jews way back in about 70 AD when the Romans came and leveled the old Jewish temple, Israel has been known as Palestine given by the Roman Emperor Hadrian as an insult to the nation of Israel, "Palestine" a form of the name "Philistine".

Then various Arab people moved in. When Islam came in about 600 AD or there abouts they built on the on site of Solomon's temple the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque and that site became a holy site for Muslims. At the end of the WWII the Jews were given back their homeland in 1948 where they poured into from Europe and have been fighting for it since.

The "Al Asqa Flood" so called by Hamas is an ongoing war between Islam and Israel, it is about removing the Jews from Israel and reestablishing Israel as a Islamic country. This is not a two state solution and never will be. However this is where Donald Trump will play a part if he becomes the POTUS, he has already established the "Abraham Accords" and Prime Minister Netanyahu wants him to reestablish peace in the Middle East, Trump who has already said that if he was still in office war would not have broken out. So also the "Christian" nationalists in the US are supporting Trump to again not only for MAGA, but to reestablish support for Israel having slipped away under the democrats

So the war that Hamas started in October last year has caused a second large wave of Jews returning to Israel as persecution of Jews has accelerated all around the world and this event and the attempted assassination of the man of peace fits in nicely with the dispensational view of the how end of the age will come. So there you go and you thought the US was not in Bible prophecy.

The 7 Dispensations from the Scofield Bible

Innocence
Conscience
Human Government
Promise
Law
Grace
The Millennial Kingdom

"The Millennial Kingdom" is where all the OT promises will be fulfilled for Israel.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Dispensationalsim as regards to C I Scofield is that Bible prophecy is to be taken literally except where there are symbolic descriptions given such as in the book of Revelation, but the the Nation of Israel is a separate entity from the church as opposed to the idea that the Church has replaced Israel and taken all the OT promises made to them. Since the time of the dispersion of the Jews way back in about 70 AD when the Romans came and leveled the old Jewish temple, Israel has been known as Palestine given by the Roman Emperor Hadrian as an insult to the nation of Israel, "Palestine" a form of the name "Philistine".

Then various Arab people moved in. When Islam came in about 600 AD or there abouts they built on the on site of Solomon's temple the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque and that site became a holy site for Muslims. At the end of the WWII the Jews were given back their homeland in 1948 where they poured into from Europe and have been fighting for it since.

The "Al Asqa Flood" so called by Hamas is an ongoing war between Islam and Israel, it is about removing the Jews from Israel and reestablishing Israel as a Islamic country. This is not a two state solution and never will be. However this is where Donald Trump will play a part if he becomes the POTUS, he has already established the "Abraham Accords" and Prime Minister Netanyahu wants him to reestablish peace in the Middle East, Trump who has already said that if he was still in office war would not have broken out. So also the "Christian" nationalists in the US are supporting Trump to again not only for MAGA, but to reestablish support for Israel having slipped away under the democrats

So the war that Hamas started in October last year has caused a second large wave of Jews returning to Israel as persecution of Jews has accelerated all around the world and this event and the attempted assassination of the man of peace fits in nicely with the dispensational view of the how end of the age will come. So there you go and you thought the US was not in Bible prophecy.

The 7 Dispensations from the Scofield Bible

Innocence
Conscience
Human Government
Promise
Law
Grace
The Millennial Kingdom

"The Millennial Kingdom" is where all the OT promises will be fulfilled for Israel.

Fascinating.

[Kitsuma]

I haven't seen Carlson's specific assertions, but yes, the Scofield Reference Bible, published right at the beginning of the 20th century widely introduced and helped spread a particular approach to the Bible. This approach, known as dispensationalism, has existed in a few different forms, but the Scofield version gained a lot of traction with this publication. One of the distinctions of it that is relevant to this discussion are a very hard distinction held between the (New Testament) church and the nation of Israel. (In the sense of "nation" meaning ethnicity, not meaning a state...) Scofield's view taught that there are unfulfilled Old Testament promises to Israel that will yet come to pass, which are separate from promises to the church in the new (i.e. Christian) covenant.

Scofield's views entail the rebuilding of the Jewish nation, the retaking of the land, the re-establishment of the Temple in Jerusalem, worldwide resistance to the nation, etc. With the foundation of the modern nation state in 1948, most adherents saw this period as an exciting and long anticipated fulfillment. Part and parcel of this is the view that the promise of God to Abraham, "Who blesses you, I shall bless, and who curses you, I shall curse," applies to the ethnic Jews, and to this modern state. With the heavy influence of Scofield's dispensationalism having taken wide hold in what is now sociologically viewed as Evangelical Christianity, and the cultural and political impact of that demographic in the US, this is where you see a lot (though not all) of the American support for Israel, in terms of worldview and thought. To this point of view, blessing the modern Israeli state is aligning with the purposes of God, and will result in the blessings of God on both nations. Likewise, then, to refuse to support the Israeli state would be working counter to God's purposes, and would draw the discipline and curse of God as well.

To be fair, dispensationalism has multiple forms, and not all dispensationalists are Scofield followers. Nor are all American Christians dispensationalists. Not all Israel-supporting Christians are dispensationalists, by any means.

Still, the sociopolitical influence is there, and it remains strong, even though the dispensational structure of thought seems to be declining in recent years. There also remains many forms of cultural Christianity and its influences, including in non-practicing Christians and in the politicians who seek their votes. Furthermore, ideas from one source generally tend to inform other systems of ideas, and the common American default that Israel are the good guys and anyone attacking them are the bad guys has multiple connections both ways.

Cultures are never single variable systems, but yes, it is certainly true that Scofield's dispensationalism is a major factor in US/Israeli politics.

Does that scratch where you itch, Kitsuma?

This is excellent, Jason. Many thanks.

So modern day humans (1909) completely turned around Jesus' beautiful, simple message and made it ugly, and the State ran with it. My invisible friend does not approve.

[anticausal]

Language Changes in the Media with Trevor Rachko | Starting Strength Radio #267

I only just now got around to watching this episode. It was great. Everyone should listen to this one.

[wal]

Fascinating.

The more you lift the stronger you grow. Like ripples in a pond knowledge and strength will spread through the masses. And as you know this process starts with you. (written by a prophet I know)

[David A. Rowe]

Fascinating.

Not really. There are an incredible amount of assumptions taken out of context, both historically and scripturally. It leads to all kinds of insanity and absurdity. Eschatology, "Creationism" where people treat the Biblical books like textbooks (thanks Kent Hovind), etc. Essentially piecing things together and extrapolating forwards and backwards.

It's like trying to justify not paying your cable bill by taking random quotes from your VCR manual.

I think views like Dr. Heiser's and other scholars are as close as can be expected to reality. Essentially, prophecy served as a warning against what was happening presently because of where it would go in the future, and its usefulness of predicting said future, let alone specific events and never on a firm timescale.

Except Messianic prophecy, which is essentially "you guys keep screwing up the plan to redeem everything and breaking your promises, but I'm not going to give up on my end."

It makes me wonder how much of the Bible some of these people have actually read.

[Matt Jackson]

Fascinating.

Very, it's like reading Star Wars lore... But it doesn't really explain why a bunch of Eastern Europeans, like Polish Netanyahu, can make 2000+ year old historical claims. I suppose it's... anti-Semitic to question anything.

Most Ashkenazi Jews are genetically Europeans, surprising study finds

A substantial prehistoric European ancestry amongst Ashkenazi maternal lineages | Nature Communications

The promise of this gay, rainbow flag Noahide Millennialism future also doesn't explain much

It does nothing to explain why Christian White boomers will never vote according to their own ethnic, racial interests in their Western homelands but seem happy to sacrifice the entire world in Third World War to ensure Israel continues to be an ethno-state for Jews.

[Mark Rippetoe]

This is excellent, Jason. Many thanks.

So modern day humans (1909) completely turned around Jesus' beautiful, simple message and made it ugly, and the State ran with it. My invisible friend does not approve.

He'd better do something about it. Tough though, being invisible.