Question regarding chest and hips timing during ascend

[Sakis_JB]

Hello everybody, this is a question I have asked to the Starting Strength Facebook group, and a couple of coaches there suggested I address this to Mark Rippetoe. So, this topic is kindly addressed to Mr. Rippetoe himself.
This is something I wanted to ask for some time now! Let me clarify that I am merely a practitioner who tries his best to follow the Starting Strength model (and which works for me too like it does for the thousands of other individuals, hence I am very happy to have found it!!).

I want to ask about the proper timing of the chest rise. (There is a reason I do not post in the technique section for a form check, please read on).
When the ascend begins, if I start the hip drive and delay the chest rise, then the squat becomes a slightly-at-best painful “goodmorning”. If I do it too early, it kills the drive. Either way, the vertical path of the bar becomes distorted.

If I am not mistaken, you yourself Mr. Rippetoe lift hips and chest simultaneously (or with such a small delay of the chest that it is very difficult to notice), to maintain the straight line of the barbell. Is this notion correct? I take as guide your 2 videos squatting (entitled on Youtube "Rip Squat" and “Rippetoe Under the Bar”). And if so, although the straight-line vertical path is analyzed in the book, the idea that the chest and hips rise simultaneously is only hinted at in Figure 2.22 page 27, and again, in the section regarding the preservation of the back angle (pages 45-46, Figures 2.41 and 2.42). Is there a particular reason for that?
Personally, I think the above cue is clearly implied, but even in the official video which you narrate Mr. Rippetoe (quoting the text passage from the blue bible), the guy clearly delays the chest rise and hence his form seems to deviate significantly from yours.

Having read the book meticulously and seen many videos of people being coached, I tried to do my best but ended with growing lower back pain (and not the kind of "normal" related to the workout), despite the progress (I even posted a video for form check on the group and got many kind replies that had to do with every other detail except that). Then, I found your videos and I mimicked your movement. Hallelujah! From that point on, all the (unnecessary) pain is gone and the weights go up and up much faster!

So, again if my assumption is correct (that the chest and hips rise simultaneously), why don’t you specifically state that explicitly Mr. Rippetoe? For example, why is there not a pic / sketch in the book with 2 arrows above the hips and the chest pointing upwards, and a cue there?

Thank you very much for your time, sorry for the long post and congratulations on your highly enlightening work regarding barbell training. I have the utmost respect for it.

P.S.: Most of the coaches that took the time to answer my question on Facebook (for which I am thankful), mentioned that they do not use that cue to avoid people lifting the chest first and destroying the overall form.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Learning to Squat | The Starting Strength Method

Bend Over When You Squat | Mark Rippetoe

Correcting Squat Back Angle | Mark Rippetoe

Hip Drive | Mark Rippetoe

“Butt Wink” | Mark Rippetoe

https://startingstrength.com/trainin...-and-the-squat

https://startingstrength.com/trainin...ches-the-squat

https://startingstrength.com/trainin...e-in-the-squat

https://startingstrength.com/trainin...e-in-the-squat

[Sakis_JB]

Thank you for the bunch of information.

From what I 've understood (specifically in the video "Bend over when you squat" where you quantify it), the ascend of the hips and chest are not simultatenous at all, but the chest delays a bit and the back angle changes about 2-3 degrees. Right?

If that is the case, I would also like to ask when is the right time (and how to understand that easily) to start rising the chest to maintain the vertical path of the bar?

[JJ23]

I think more in terms of the master cue...keep the bar over mid foot. If you have the right back angle at the bottom and think about the midfoot it helps me ascend properly.