Spaying or Neutering A Dog

[Frank_B]

I have a 6-month old puppy. The vet has been pressuring me to get her spayed since she was approximately 4 months old. Having been a little better educated on hormones and their purpose since you first started your podcasts on testosterone, the idea strikes me as stupid.

I understand that from a population control standpoint, the American Veterinarian’s Association pushes for this. On a nationwide scale, I understand the need to push against overpopulation.

However, as a responsible pet owner, I can see no benefit to this whatsoever. It seems like a lot of the literature is pointing to increased incidences of various cancers, cruciate ligament tears and other orthopedic injuries (along with obesity), especially in larger dogs spayed/neutered before one year.

My plan was to wait until she’s at least 12-18 months and re-evaluate how many male dogs I have show up at my front door, looking for a piece of ass every time she goes in heat. Other than the annoyance of the heat cycle in females and the ornery nature some males have when they’re not fixed, is there a good reason aside from population control to spay/neuter my pet?

Do they do this in the horse industry?

[Mark Rippetoe]

My opinion is that females get spayed after 3 estrous cycles if she is not a brood bitch, that she goes through 2 cycles without being covered if she is, and that males never get castrated. Hormones are good, as you have surmised. I have had dogs my whole life, and none of my dogs has bred or been bred without my direct involvement.

Does the vet want to do the spay for free? Has his office staff been spayed and castrated? Has he? If it's so damned healthy, why not?

[VNV]

…Hormones are good, as you have surmised….

This is why I didn’t castrate my german shepherd, who is flourishing at 1.5 y.o.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Do they do this in the horse industry?

They geld stallion colts as a regular practice in the horse business, because of the difficulties associated with controlling a 1200lb animal that is not paying attention to anything but a mare in estrous. We don't need a lot of stallions. Mares are spayed only if there is pathology.

[Frank_B]

My opinion is that females get spayed after 3 estrous cycles if she in not a brood bitch, that she goes through 2 cycles without being covered if she is, and that males never get castrated. Hormones are good, as you have surmised. I have had dogs my whole life, and none of my dogs has bred or been bred without my direct involvement.

Does the vet want to do the spay for free? Has his office staff been spayed and castrated? Has he? If it's so damned healthy, why not?

Great info! Thanks. We’ll be approaching her first cycle soon, so we’ll see. The vet seems to be obnoxiously pushy about this and I can’t figure out why it benefits my personal dog. I wonder how long before doctors start recommending human males get neutered?

My n=1 experience, by the way: I had two strays previously adopted from the local shelter. They were ~6 months when I got them. The male was neutered, and the female spayed. At the age of about 2-3 years, both of them had cruciate ligament tears that required surgery. This is the exact injury found at a much higher incidence rate in dogs fixed at a young age. The hormones help signal the tibial plateau angle, without which, making the cruciate ligaments both weaker and more prone to injury. The surgery actually changed the angle of the tibial tuberosity.

I do understand the difference in horses. Sometimes an 80 pound male dog can be a lot to handle… I can’t imagine a 1200 pound horse!

[gadders]

I recently got a male cockerpoo lockdown puppy, and the pressure to castrate him has surprised me. I grew up with un-castrated dogs and knew that a lot of the stories about them constantly trying to hump things were rubbish and so far (at a year old) that has turned out to be the case. I've even heard of people who have castrated their dogs and had it continue to hump things because they never trained it not to, and they thought that castration would solve all their problems.

I'm in a few dog owning groups and you often see women (and is always women) proudly proclaiming that they have taken their dog for his "big boy operation" (puke). I think there is something else going on with them pyschologically that is being expressed through dog ownership.

When I got him for my 50th birthday, I wanted an actual, real life dog. Not an animated semi-independent teddy bear. It may even be true that castrated dogs live longer, but that is arguably true for human males as well and (to paraphrase) they will have to pry my nuts from my cold, dead hands. That came out wrong.

20220411_104901.jpg
Hamilton waiting for me to finish my set.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I'm in a few dog owning groups and you often see women (and is always women) proudly proclaiming that they have taken their dog for his "big boy operation" (puke). I think there is something else going on with them pyschologically that is being expressed through dog ownership.

Yes. Lesbian Animal Rescue People are an actual thing. No male dog shall have testicles, for testicles are of the Devil. I think the vets know that they make money on stifle joints after they make money on castrations.

[VNV]

Yes. Lesbian Animal Rescue People are an actual thing. No male dog shall have testicles, for testicles are of the Devil. I think the vets know that they make money on stifle joints after they make money on castrations.

I’ve been wondering if not castrating my GSD would reduce risk of hip problems later. Because, hormones are good.

[3rdcoast_slope]

I had a lot of mixed feelings about doing it to my dog. I was younger and more trusting of the Vet and conventional wisdom. My pitbull had to recently have surgery for both his knees due to the same reason. He is 65 pound pitbull. My small Staf never had any issues and he is castrated from the pound. My pit is now crazy fast and doesn’t suffer any issues with the surgery. That surgeon Vet was incredible in Victoria, TX. My pit actually seems faster and out runs my smaller dog which he couldn’t before. I still feel bad about it, just trying to justify it. Who knows, the original vet said it happens in some breeds who are strong young dogs. But both knees??? Seems a little suspicious. The cynicism is growing so deep with these institutions.

[Frank_B]

I recently got a male cockerpoo lockdown puppy, and the pressure to castrate him has surprised me.

That's why I asked. I was very surprised by the almost obnoxious pressure to spay her. I don't ever recall having that much pressure put on me to spay or neuter a dog.