Rip video: Lower Back Position Control

[Mark Rippetoe]

Lower Back Position Control

[Cascadian]

Rip, what really helped me was one of your videos talking to a group where you explained that:

1) The proper back position is just the normal standing position, which has a lordotic lumbar curve and kyphotic thoracic curve.

2) And that normal lordotic lumbar curve AND the kyphotic thoracic curve ARE BOTH EXTENSION.


I did not understand that the natural kyphotic thoracic curve was also considered extension; I mistakenly thought that was flexion to be eliminated at all costs.

Yes we have to set our backs into the natural and hence optimal position during the deadlift, but now I see that doesn't mean unnaturally forcing the thoracic spine into (true) flexion.


Please confirm, or correct me if I have misinterpreted this.

[Mark Rippetoe]

You're exactly correct.

[Martin Shenfield]

Have you ever shown what the next step is if this doesn't work? You said in the video something about beatings.

[Jason Donaldson]

Have you ever shown what the next step is if this doesn't work? You said in the video something about beatings.

Hush, now. Plausible deniability and all that...

[Jovan Dragisic]

Have you ever shown what the next step is if this doesn't work? You said in the video something about beatings.

Have you ever had someone slap your low back really hard before a pull? It is remarkably effective.

[Cascadian]

Rip, what really helped me was one of your videos talking to a group where you explained that:

1) The proper back position is just the normal standing position, which has a lordotic lumbar curve and kyphotic thoracic curve.

2) And that normal lordotic lumbar curve AND the kyphotic thoracic curve ARE BOTH EXTENSION.


I did not understand that the natural kyphotic thoracic curve was also considered extension; I mistakenly thought that was flexion to be eliminated at all costs.

Yes we have to set our backs into the natural and hence optimal position during the deadlift, but now I see that doesn't mean unnaturally forcing the thoracic spine into (true) flexion.


Please confirm, or correct me if I have misinterpreted this.

Words, words everywhere,
And not a thought to think.
Words, words everywhere,
Yet all the brains did shrink.


Most Powerful,

Thank you for confirming this. Had I not come across that video, I might have had a incorrect picture for God knows how long.

Okay, so now I am clear on what "setting the back" means - physically - and I am clear on the mechanical logic behind it. Again, my new understanding is that half of "setting the back" is to preserve and brace - not eliminate - the natural kyphotic thoracic curve.

Incidentally, I suspect this creates much confusion, because the popular universal admonishment is that a "rounded back" is a catastrophe to be avoided at all costs (with no distinction made between the contra-curving lumbar and thoracic segments), which seems to imply that the natural kyphotic curve should be ironed flat.

Be that as it may, now I'm simply a bit confused on terminology (and only terminology), so perhaps you could shine some light on wording.

I had always thought, and you can find this everywhere online, that for the thoracic spine, flexing toward the rib cage = flexion, and flexing away from the rib cage = extension. Yet you seem to be using those terms in the opposite directions.

Forgive me if I'm just being dense (which I am), and if you've discussed this more times than there are ways to deal a deck of cards (which as we all know is 52! = 8.0658175 x 10^67), but could you please suggest the source of this apparent contradiction.

Again, I'm clear on physically what to do, and that's the most important thing. Now I'm just trying to chase down clarity in use of terms, because, you know, Words' Lives Matter.

[Johnsonville]

Thanks for this. I have been watching some clips from other lifters and coaches who have appeared on the old interview series, and took some bad cues that pissed off my lower back. This explains exactly what I did wrong.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Back Angle and Spinal Position | Mark Rippetoe

I had always thought, and you can find this everywhere online, that for the thoracic spine, flexing toward the rib cage = flexion, and flexing away from the rib cage = extension. Yet you seem to be using those terms in the opposite directions.

Towards flexion/away flexion is confusing, very true, so I don't use those terms. Try this: Lumbar Extension means decreasing the radius of the curve. Thoracic Extension means increasing the radius of the curve.

[Cascadian]

Towards flexion/away flexion is confusing, very true, so I don't use those terms. Try this: Lumbar Extension means decreasing the radius of the curve. Thoracic Extension means increasing the radius of the curve.

Men, it has been well said, think in herds;
it will be seen that they go mad in herds,
while they only recover their senses slowly,
one by one.


Thank you, sir, for clarifying. The entire universe finally makes sense. I can die in peace.

Btw, given that I'm Mr. Average Guy, I have to think that I am not the only soul out there who has been tripped up by this unfortunate convergence of confusing terms and the admonishment "don't round your back."