Olympic inclusivity

[mkm5]

Does anyone on this board have daughters competing in youth sports?
Have they been checked for a Y chromosome or undescended testicles?

I've got four daughters in their 20s. Two of them ran track in high school and went on to finish in the top 20 in the state. My girls ran for fun, although competitive, it wasn't their main focus in life.

Since they have babies now, it's a moot point on genetics or testing...

I never had any thought that my daughters weren't girls, that's just borderline insanity right there.

This conversation wouldn't even be taking place 10-20 years ago.

Also, I taught my girls how to ride a bike, swim, water ski, snow ski, archery, target shooting, fishing, etc.

We spent lots of time playing baseball and throwing and catching a football.

My girls can catch frogs and turtles like a natural instinct; we used to take out the old Chris Craft Scorpion and look for turtles sitting on logs at the lakeshore, the girls would jump off the boat just before we hit the shore and they'd chase them down and catch them, even the smaller snapping turtles!

I taught them from a very young age to avoid the big snapping turtles; showed them one time when a two footer was crossing our yard and I put a branch in front of it and it snapped it in two without hesitation!

And yes, my girls are still girls.

[Yngvi]

Does anyone on this board have daughters competing in youth sports?
Have they been checked for a Y chromosome or undescended testicles?

Use stereotyping like a normal human; there is no need for mass testing.
Testing is unnecessary and dumb unless the athlete displays male characteristics.

[Lost and Found]

I've got four daughters in their 20s. Two of them ran track in high school and went on to finish in the top 20 in the state. My girls ran for fun, although competitive, it wasn't their main focus in life.

Since they have babies now, it's a moot point on genetics or testing...

I never had any thought that my daughters weren't girls, that's just borderline insanity right there.

This conversation wouldn't even be taking place 10-20 years ago.

Also, I taught my girls how to ride a bike, swim, water ski, snow ski, archery, target shooting, fishing, etc.

We spent lots of time playing baseball and throwing and catching a football.

My girls can catch frogs and turtles like a natural instinct; we used to take out the old Chris Craft Scorpion and look for turtles sitting on logs at the lakeshore, the girls would jump off the boat just before we hit the shore and they'd chase them down and catch them, even the smaller snapping turtles!

I taught them from a very young age to avoid the big snapping turtles; showed them one time when a two footer was crossing our yard and I put a branch in front of it and it snapped it in two without hesitation!

And yes, my girls are still girls.

Ha! I feel your pain and your joy. I've got four daughters also (in their 30's and 40's now). Some are more athletic and "tomboyish" than the others (fishing and bowhunting deer). They had friends who were terrific athletes and definitely more ripped than their classmates but they were girls too.

My point is that the Algerian boxer's dad was probably no different than either of us. His daughter was born, doc saw no penis so It's a Girl! and so she was raised as a girl. As she grew up she was athletic and drifted towards women's boxing. (I would doubt that Algeria has the youth sports opportunity of the USA). This is an entirely different story than a male boxer who decides to become a woman at age 20.

[KeithI]

Use stereotyping like a normal human; there is no need for mass testing.
Testing is unnecessary and dumb unless the athlete displays male characteristics.

Would you have tested Babe Didrikson Zaharias?

[Yngvi]

Would you have tested Babe Didrikson Zaharias?

I don't know or care who that is, but if she looks like a man, walks like a man and quacks, there is a good chance she is a duck.

[mkm5]

Ha! I feel your pain and your joy. I've got four daughters also (in their 30's and 40's now). Some are more athletic and "tomboyish" than the others (fishing and bowhunting deer). They had friends who were terrific athletes and definitely more ripped than their classmates but they were girls too.

My point is that the Algerian boxer's dad was probably no different than either of us. His daughter was born, doc saw no penis so It's a Girl! and so she was raised as a girl. As she grew up she was athletic and drifted towards women's boxing. (I would doubt that Algeria has the youth sports opportunity of the USA). This is an entirely different story than a male boxer who decides to become a woman at age 20.

Agreed, and congratulations on the four daughters, there's never a dull moment with them is there?!

I saw a clip of the women's basketball game last night, I won't comment other than it was a joke seeing that tall dude celebrating "her" Olympic gold medal.

[Lars S.]

Hello, I thought some of you might find the following publication in the Scandinavian Journal of Medicine and Science in Sports interesting, in the context of the subject matter:

Just a moment...

Introduction:
”The International Olympic Committee framework on fairness, inclusion and nondiscrimination on the basis of gender identity and sex variations does not protect fairness for female athletes”

Interestingly enough, this paper has been submitted to the IOC and although the chairman of the IOC has stated - in the wake of the controversy surrounding the Algerian boxer - that they are willing to review the noted framework upon substantiated critique thereof, it has seemingly been ignored.

As an aside, the two individuals in Olympic Games womens boxing that were questioned (due to having previously been banned from a different womens boxing contest, alledgedly due to having been tested and confirmed for XY chromosomes) won gold in their respective weight class.

[Mark Rippetoe]

As an aside, the two individuals in Olympic Games womens boxing that were questioned (due to having previously been banned from a different womens boxing contest, alledgedly due to having been tested and confirmed for XY chromosomes) won gold in their respective weight class.

Thus rendering the Olympic Games an irrelevant political event.

[Farmer]

Yes, they have higher testosterone levels but they're not that of a male so I'm not sure how you draw that line? Massively varying levels of testosterone occur in individual males so this point is an odd one to make. The question is whether they should've been assigned a male at birth I guess but the fact some of them have the ability to give birth really muddies the waters. But, from reading other messages maybe this isn't correct? I get all the politics around this and we know what goes on, I think most of us on this forum are on the same page with regards to this.

So her test levels could way higher than a high-female. You and the IOC need to look at it like a PED issue. She is XY, looks very manish, and I heard she practically failed a drug test previously for high testosterone.

That Caster Semenya case (800m runner that the IOC has to deal with), she had test. levels "like a man" .... So she's basically a women (not really) running on PED levels of test. and should (and was) banned accordingly.

From what I understand, (normal) women who choose to take PEDS .... they only have to take a very small amount of testosterone, because they do have a lot of test.receptors ....because, again, normally they do not have a lot of natural testosterone floating around in their system. So a little test goes a long way in a women.

This is probably the same type of case Semenya. But alas, the IOC took a lot of shit for mandating Semenya take hormone blockers to get her testosterone under control. They are conveniently hiding behind the boxing federations and some quasi-HIPA rationales, etc.

[zinedine kilbane]

Yes, they have higher testosterone levels but they're not that of a male so I'm not sure how you draw that line? Massively varying levels of testosterone occur in individual males so this point is an odd one to make. The question is whether they should've been assigned a male at birth I guess but the fact some of them have the ability to give birth really muddies the waters. But, from reading other messages maybe this isn't correct? I get all the politics around this and we know what goes on, I think most of us on this forum are on the same page with regards to this.

https://x.com/cremieuxrecueil/status...rWgK0XrEmuJIiw

Look at the bell curves here. There’s no overlap. It’s not possible for a woman to make enough testosterone to be in the male range. The only thing that makes that possible is being a man with testicles.

Iman is a man. They have testicles which produce male levels of testosterone and sperm. They went though make puberty. Have a male brain, a male skull, male hands, male hip structure, male chromosones.

The only difference is they have a birth defect that means their penis didn’t develop proplery.

Framing this as “it’s a woman with high test” is biologically incorrect, it a male with a penis defect.

In day to day life that’s fine, continue wearing a dress nobody cares. But they failed several conclusive sex tests and decided to continue boxing against women. Shame on them.

And you no longer have ignorance as an excuse so if you continue to support this shame on you too