My Back Sucks // Recovery Questions

[lolnickybobby]

Good Morning to you Mr. Rip.
After a hard summer of long hours and hard manual labour which inevitably led to shitty diet, high stress, and inconsistent training, I am ready to go back on the NLP.
Info on me:

• 39 Years Old
• 5'9 1/2
• 185 lbs (last winter's NLP I went form 172 to 196, now I am down to 185)
• History of back issues (tendency to lock up, discectomy at l4-l5 back in 2016, and according to an MRI, other disc issues and stenosis)
• Weak. At might strongest: SQ: 265x5; DL: 295x3 (failed at the 4th rep); Bench 160x5; Press: 120x5
• Last NLP diet: 4000 calories, 200g of protein, no focus on fat/carbs ratio

I own all 3 books and refer to them regularly. I understand the program. I believe in the program and the philosophy behind it. That said, my back REALLY sucks, especially when it comes to the deadlift. This summer I did a one exercise per day split to try to keep as much of my strength as I could given I couldn't reasonably go through the grueling realities of NLP. Though I know INDTP, it helped me understand which exercise is most taxing on my body in terms of injuries, and that exercise is BY FAR the deadlift. On squat days, I can pretty much go max effort without any ill effects beyond what is expected. On deadlift days, I know I'm in for about two weeks of a wide range of lower back symptoms, such as:

• Hip joint pain and a feeling of instability in my hips
• Something that feels like SI joint pain though I'm saying this intuitively based on where I feel it
• Lower back stiffness and risk of lock-up
• Pain around tailbone area
• Something that feels like psoas pain (tightness on both side from hips into buttocks)
• Some minor sciatic issues

I've heard you say it (and quoted you) many times: "a strong back is a healthy back". I don't have that right now. My waist is about a 32 and I can't even deadlift 300lbs. But if I wait until I am recovered from all of the above before the next workout, there is no way I'm doing enough to trigger adaptation. I am therefore seeking advice on what you think my approach should be here as I enter training season again:

• I know I don't have the prerequisite training or experience to know what a DL should "feel" like, but my DL doesn't feel right. I don't feel like I'm pulling from a position of strength, I can see the bar kind roll back before I start my pull, and I can feel that everything hinges on my lower back in a way that definitely feels potentially harmful. From the following video, do you see anything bad enough to cause all these issues, or is my back the problem? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0tuXFqnjRU
• Should I look to do some kind of program modification at this point (e.g., do a regular NLP but switch to pullups and Rows when I am hurting from deadlifts)?
• Should I just continue the NLP as is and hope that the back stuff will work itself out as I get stronger?

Any other advice is greatly appreciated.
Thank you very much in advance, Rip. We are lucky to have you responding directly to us on here.
Cheers from Quebec Canada.
Nic

[Mark Rippetoe]

Post a squat and deadlift video so we can see if there's a problem.

[lolnickybobby]

Yes Sir

Squat

Deadlift

[lolnickybobby]

Hello all, taking a chance at reviving this before crossposting in case it fell through the cracks.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Wonderful music. Look at your knees at the bottom of the squat. Why are you using a double-overhand grip on the deadlift? It's coming loose.

[Maybach]

You're not going to like hearing this, but it *sounds* from your description that you're just experiencing regular aches and pains and letting them get in your head. Do these issues actually make it impossible to pull the next weight? What happens if you just...ignore them? I get all kinds of weird little niggles when I pull an especially heavy deadlift, but this doesn't correlate to my ability to pull them next week. You might be surprised (though I don't forgo the possibility that you might not be. This might legitimately be a recovery issue)

Because I gotta say these deadlifts...look fine. I don't envision you having a problem pulling these plus five pounds later in the day, let alone next week. Maybe things change as you round in on 300 lbs.

Rip makes a good point about the grip: the grip failing does a great deal to make the deadlift not "feel strong." Get straps or try hook/double overhand. Hook grip on the high 200s is a nice easy introduction to that.

Losing weight while not progressing your lifts is just about the worst damn thing you can do. The fact that you dropped ten pounds nearly effortlessly while your weights rolled back tells me that you don't have any business trying to lose weight at this point. Eat MORE. Not a LOT. MORE.

A very minor quibble: you might try moving your belt "up." You've got it cinched in the classic weightlifting position of "under the belly," but this both leaves the meat of the abdominals uncovered and risks impinging on the hips the way a wider belt would. Try moving the belt up a couple inches so that some of your belly is "under" it, so that it sits midway between your ribs and iliac crest. Think corset, not girdle. This might be exacerbating the bodily complaints you mention, minor though they may be.

[Martin Shenfield]

I think you should drive the six hours (according to google) to Starting Strength Boston.

[lolnickybobby]

Wonderful music. Look at your knees at the bottom of the squat. Why are you using a double-overhand grip on the deadlift? It's coming loose.

Sorry about the music boss - maybe I should post these without sound. Are you talking about the slight knee slide/cave? Maybe hips need to be stronger to keep them out and I'll keep that in mind, but thankfully the squat doesn't seem to be causing too many issues for me.

For the grip, this is only because it's a lighter weight, and I typically start to use a mixed grip around the 250ish mark.

You're not going to like hearing this, but it *sounds* from your description that you're just experiencing regular aches and pains and letting them get in your head. Do these issues actually make it impossible to pull the next weight? What happens if you just...ignore them? I get all kinds of weird little niggles when I pull an especially heavy deadlift, but this doesn't correlate to my ability to pull them next week. You might be surprised (though I don't forgo the possibility that you might not be. This might legitimately be a recovery issue)

Because I gotta say these deadlifts...look fine. I don't envision you having a problem pulling these plus five pounds later in the day, let alone next week. Maybe things change as you round in on 300 lbs.

Sure I could have lifted another 5 pounds as this wasn't a super heavy weight for me. Maybe it has to do with me being almost 40, but when I'm deadlifting I'm unable to standup straight or easily bend over to brush my teeth in the morning in a way that feels above and beyond normal (though I could be wrong). This mostly goes away if I haven't been lifting for several weeks. The pain isn't unbearable or debilitating, but it's also not a muscular "lock up" or DOMS type pain - it feels more like joint stuff. Would you call that normal?

Losing weight while not progressing your lifts is just about the worst damn thing you can do. The fact that you dropped ten pounds nearly effortlessly while your weights rolled back tells me that you don't have any business trying to lose weight at this point. Eat MORE. Not a LOT. MORE.

Very true. I'm not trying to lose weight, I'm just one of those people that lose weight easily and I'm extremely active in the summer so I'm burning calories like crazy.

A very minor quibble: you might try moving your belt "up." You've got it cinched in the classic weightlifting position of "under the belly," but this both leaves the meat of the abdominals uncovered and risks impinging on the hips the way a wider belt would. Try moving the belt up a couple inches so that some of your belly is "under" it, so that it sits midway between your ribs and iliac crest. Think corset, not girdle. This might be exacerbating the bodily complaints you mention, minor though they may be.

Copy that, I'll give it a try. thank you

[asm44]

Eat MORE. Not a LOT. MORE.

Usually I agree with everything you say, Maybach, but I think this guy's issue is he just doesn't know how to try. Those squats are far from a limit set. A 265x5 squat at 5'9/185 has little to do with eating. Those are woman numbers.

I don't know, maybe it just can't be taught. I get that most people don't eat enough (myself included), but most people don't really try either, even though they think they are.

[lolnickybobby]

Usually I agree with everything you say, Maybach, but I think this guy's issue is he just doesn't know how to try. Those squats are far from a limit set. A 265x5 squat at 5'9/185 has little to do with eating. Those are woman numbers.

I don't know, maybe it just can't be taught. I get that most people don't eat enough (myself included), but most people don't really try either, even though they think they are.

You're wrong about effort. When I failed my 4th rep on a 295 DL I strained so hard I literally gave myself a migraine. I am 39 years old, I spent most of my life being a "Skinny Insectoid Motherfucker" as Rip would call it. After I got my surgery in 2016 I couldn't even tie my shoes and my weight went down to 147lbs, so closing in on 200lbs bw and a 300 squat was once completely unfathomable for me. This is big progress whether you call those "women numbers" or not. I work hard, I will continue to do so, and what I'm looking for is advice on how to do so in a way that won't destroy my back.