You must eat big, or you're a pussy!!!

[MAD9692]

Second: I'm pretty sure Rippetoe has said that there is nothing wrong with doing some LSD cardio while on Starting Strength. In fact, the quote I am remembering went something like, "...nothing wrong with getting one the treadmill two or three times a week. Gotta keep the heart strong too..." Anyways, it was something like that..

Where has he said this?

[nisora33]

Now. I'd like to respond to Stacey's initial post, because I think its a worthy dialog, if people can stop being wank-tards for one second.

Stacey, your perspective is coming from being a young skinny underfed and undertrained guy who wanted to get big. Your approach worked for you, and it kind of makes sense that it did. You were undereating, you had relatively low bf%, so you started to eat, and low and behold you got bigger. Makes sense.

I'm coming from the opposite end. I'm a bit older and have frankly been overfed and undertrained for years. I've got a significant gut already, and while my blood work is still ok, its not as good as it has been, and it is clear to any medical professional that I should be dropping fat. Clearly our approaches should be different.

This was never in dispute, at least not from my end.

-S.

[BruteForce]

Now you lost me. Are you also trying to point out how shitty and Bro-Sounding your analogy was?

Nope, I thought I would make an over simplified analogy for you guys who can't seem to grasp the whole "low impact" cardio on a regular basis will help increase the strength of your heart in proportion to your increased body mass and demand on said heart due to increased weight load.
O.K., I'm done arguing that point.

Back to stacey's original post. Stacey, you were sharing with me your thoughts on the main reason why people fail in their weight gain goals the other day. Will you share those with the guys here for hopefully a new conversational spark?

[Chewie_jrc]

Look, if you want to do cardio that's cool man, knock yourself out. Hell, if you want to sub out squats for dumbell flyes, you can do that too, I really don't care. Everybody has different goals, etc. The problem I have is when someone comes along with there Bro-Science bullshit and is basically saying you're going to drop dead because you aren't doing any cardio/metKon. Compound the broscience with lame ass analogies instead of facts and it gets pretty irritating. Plenty of us have left cardio behind and just lifte/ate and are doing okay. A few months of it will probably not kill you. I'm just calling him out on his shit.

I have no problem with anybody wanting to focus more on general health and not so much on strength-at-all-costs. I'll probably be there one day too. Let's just leave the silly bullshit at home k?

[Chewie_jrc]

...
Second: I'm pretty sure Rippetoe has said that there is nothing wrong with doing some LSD cardio while on Starting Strength. In fact, the quote I am remembering went something like, "...nothing wrong with getting one the treadmill two or three times a week. Gotta keep the heart strong too..." Anyways, it was something like that.
...

Okay see, there we go again. Nobody will send the Linear Progression death squad to your home if you do cardio. Again, do as you wish as our goals, training history, health concerns, etc are all going to differ by some degree.

I don't remember Rip ever saying you need to do some LSD to "keep your heart strong". If you want to do cardio, fine. Want to lose weight or keep your heart healthy or whatever, that's all cool. If you want to maximize your strength gains then you need to focus on getting as much rest, nutrition, and intensity out of your workouts as possible. Especially as you get deeper into linear progression and every fucking workout is a grueling death match with the barbell.

[BruteForce]

Look, if you want to do cardio that's cool man, knock yourself out. Hell, if you want to sub out squats for dumbell flyes, you can do that too, I really don't care. Everybody has different goals, etc. The problem I have is when someone comes along with there Bro-Science bullshit and is basically saying you're going to drop dead because you aren't doing any cardio/metKon. Compound the broscience with lame ass analogies instead of facts and it gets pretty irritating. Plenty of us have left cardio behind and just lifte/ate and are doing okay. A few months of it will probably not kill you. I'm just calling him out on his shit.

I have no problem with anybody wanting to focus more on general health and not so much on strength-at-all-costs. I'll probably be there one day too. Let's just leave the silly bullshit at home k?

It's not silly bullshit. I lift as hard and heavy as anyone on this board, and am ONLY concerned at this point with adding brute strength to really put on size. What I'm trying to get across is the fact that if you do a few days of cardio per week, you CAN push yourself harder and longer during your workouts, getting better results.

Apparently, your ONLY definition of cardio is a fucking 26K marathon. Are you so scared of dropping 1lb you won't do any cardio? You really think that a few minutes of your heart rate being 140bpm per week is going to halt your weight gain? I.M.H. Fucking Opinion, any responsible weight trainer will keep the strength of his heart and lungs at the same priority as his skeletal muscle tissue and tendon strength.

[Chewie_jrc]

Nope, I thought I would make an over simplified analogy for you guys who can't seem to grasp the whole "low impact" cardio on a regular basis will help increase the strength of your heart in proportion to your increased body mass and demand on said heart due to increased weight load.

Enlighten me on this (without lame ass race-car analogies). So you're saying that your heart will not adapt and get stronger by squatting 300+ lbs but that the only way you can keep it strong is by "low impact cardio/LSD". Am I understanding this correctly (serious question)?

Of course your overall endurance will go down when solely focusing on strength (this is obvious). I'm not saying you can go run the Los Angeles marathon after finishing linear progression. But I really doubt your heart is in danger of "not being strong" because I didn't get my heart rate up via walking my dog up a hill at 4% grade.

[Chewie_jrc]

It's not silly bullshit. I lift as hard and heavy as anyone on this board, and am ONLY concerned at this point with adding brute strength to really put on size. What I'm trying to get across is the fact that if you do a few days of cardio per week, you CAN push yourself harder and longer during your workouts, getting better results.

Apparently, your ONLY definition of cardio is a fucking 26K marathon. Are you so scared of dropping 1lb you won't do any cardio? You really think that a few minutes of your heart rate being 140bpm per week is going to halt your weight gain? I.M.H. Fucking Opinion, any responsible weight trainer will keep the strength of his heart and lungs at the same priority as his skeletal muscle tissue and tendon strength.

First:
I'm not saying you dont' lift hard or that you're not strong. Nor am I questioning your work ethic. That has nothing to do with what we're talking about anyway.

Secondly:
I never said I think cardio is only some superhuman endurance event. I'll concede that low-impact LSD like walking or biking or whatever is cardio. I don't see a problem with that definition.

The Pièce de Résistance:
Now you're talking about my goals or wants vs. yours. Yes, I would like to avoid losing any mass and ensure I keep my strength increasing. It is a top priority in my life and I am willing to let my "cardio" degrade as I pursue this goal. It may not be yours or anybody elses, but it is mine. You may be more concernced with overall fitness/health and I will not contest that or say it is wrong, that is for us to decide as adults. My point is that your heart will not "xplode" nor will your heart be "weak" by not doing dedicated "low impact cardio" for the few months you are optimizing your strength in a linear progression program. It is a blink of an eye in the time you will be training. By establishing a solid foundation of strength and inking the last bit of your novice, you will be aligned for success in pursuing whatever your athletic/personal fitness goals are. That is my point.

Quick aside: That being said, I do go surfing every week and live in a city where I walk around everywhere. Should I cut that out to maximize recovery? Probably, but at this time I will not. I'm still progressing. If I need to, I will cut these things out for a TEMPORARY AMOUNT OF TIME.

Another aside: You pussies that keep bitching because there is discourse going on...shove it. We're here to exchange ideas, not kick each other's ass. Can't handle disagreement and a little name calling? That's fine, but don't whine about to me because I really don't give a shit. It wasn't even that bad, just teasing him a little bit for his excessive BroNess....grow up.

[BruteForce]

Enlighten me on this (without lame ass race-car analogies). So you're saying that your heart will not adapt and get stronger by squatting 300+ lbs but that the only way you can keep it strong is by "low impact cardio/LSD". Am I understanding this correctly (serious question)?

Of course your overall endurance will go down when solely focusing on strength (this is obvious). I'm not saying you can go run the Los Angeles marathon after finishing linear progression. But I really doubt your heart is in danger of "not being strong" because I didn't get my heart rate up via walking my dog up a hill at 4% grade.

I'll put it this way, I can squat 315 all the way into the hole and out for a solid set of 12+, and there is absolutely no way i could be doing that if it weren't for some consistent cardio training. I understand that your training goals are most likely vastly different than mine, but it doesn't change the fact that you would be able to train harder and longer if you did some low impact cardio.

Can you personally walk 3 flights of stairs without breathing out of your mouth?

EDIT: After reading your post, i saw you said you surf every week, and walk the beach. That is all im talking about. That is all the cardio you need. I was under the impression you didnt do anything exercise wise outside of SS. I don't think you should ever stop surfing or walking the beach, if anything those things will aid in your recovery by increasing your mood! I wish like hell I had a beach to walk every day!

[MAD9692]

I'll put it this way, I can squat 315 all the way into the hole and out for a solid set of 12+, and there is absolutely no way i could be doing that if it weren't for some consistent cardio training. I!

Are you actually saying that the only reason that you have the stamina to do sets of 12 is because you do cardio? Did I read that right? Wow.

Silly Bullshit