Weight Gain rate

[danz]

Hey, I am 27, 5”9, was almost 200 lbs 3.5 months ago, lost around 35 (mostly fat). I really do not want to add unnecessary fat or at a bad ratio while doing the NLP. Is gaining 1lb a week too little? Is it going to hinder my progression? As far as I know you cannot really add 1lb of muscle per week so assuming I am eating adequate amounts of protein this should maximize my gains while minimizing fat loss, right?

My goal really is to get to 3-4 plates on my squats if that’s possible with the NLP. (2-3 on bench, 1-2 OHP, 4 deadlift)

[Robert Santana]

How about eating as much as your training demands you eat? What is your current calorie and macro intake?

[danz]

I am at around 2700 which is around 300-400 surplus for me. Does the training demand a bigger surplus? I guess that’s what I am asking. I made the mistake of eating way too excessively and gaining a lot of fat before and I don’t want to repeat it.

[Robert Santana]

What do you define as a "lot of fat" and how much did you put on the bar last time you gained weight?

[danz]

I was not doing Starting Strength, but a hypertrophy program. In that program I pushed to failure and trained relatively hard too. I ended up gaining around 2KG+ of BW a month. Later I realized that probably half of what I gained was fat despite training to failure, eating enough protein, sleeping well.

I want to start doing Starting Strength (waiting to read through the book), but I fear this excessive unnecessary addition of fat. I am okay with fat, and not an abs junky by any means but I want to bulk relatively cleanly this time as the cut was grueling and really a waste of time (since I could have bulked at a smaller surplus ideally).

Meaning if SS takes a surplus of 500 to maximize gains I do not want to be eating at +1000, as the additional 500 will accumulate unnecessary fat. (I do weigh the food and am aware of fluctuation but I also track my weight with Moving Average so I am relatively accurate).

So the question is basically at what surplus should you ideally eat to attain the above goal while still doing the program? Or rather what is the minimum monthly addition of weight that is required for the program?

Thank you

[Maybach]

The rate you add weight to the bar on the NLP is such that you really can't outgain it reasonably. In the time it will take you to add 35 pounds of bodyweight, you'll have added like a hundred pounds to your squat.

I will tell you, a three plate bench and two plate press is NOT happening at anything less than 220. A three plate and four plate deadlift are more possible. A four plate squat you might get away with at 200.

It's going to do you a lot of good to just eat to support your training and let the weight on the scale go up wiht the bar. Don't try to estimate your surplus or target a certain "weekly" weigh gain, if only to actually see what training is like when you can freely gain weight.

Every time I have tried to "take it easy" on the weight gain, training immediately moves down a gear, no matter where the weights were. Doing this to yourself when the weights (both scale and bar) are light is doing yourself a disservice.

[Robert Santana]

I was not doing Starting Strength, but a hypertrophy program. In that program I pushed to failure and trained relatively hard too. I ended up gaining around 2KG+ of BW a month. Later I realized that probably half of what I gained was fat despite training to failure, eating enough protein, sleeping well.

I want to start doing Starting Strength (waiting to read through the book), but I fear this excessive unnecessary addition of fat. I am okay with fat, and not an abs junky by any means but I want to bulk relatively cleanly this time as the cut was grueling and really a waste of time (since I could have bulked at a smaller surplus ideally).

Meaning if SS takes a surplus of 500 to maximize gains I do not want to be eating at +1000, as the additional 500 will accumulate unnecessary fat. (I do weigh the food and am aware of fluctuation but I also track my weight with Moving Average so I am relatively accurate).

So the question is basically at what surplus should you ideally eat to attain the above goal while still doing the program? Or rather what is the minimum monthly addition of weight that is required for the program?

Thank you

"Going to failure" doesn't mean shit if the weights you are going to failure with are light. The surplus is the one that facilitates weight on the bar and does not keep you underweight. You will gain fat and you may gain it on your belly because that is simply where your body likes to store it, nothing more, nothing less. The load increases hold you accountable and remind you that you are gaining muscle along with it. How strong are you today and how much weight were you lifting when you did that bodybuilding program?

[danz]

Thank you both! That’s very helpful. I’ll be doing as you said as it obviously is harder to gain muscle/get stronger than lose body fat. So worst case I can cut a bit at the end of the NLP, or recomp. I’ll worry about it when I get there I guess.

To your question Robert, not very strong. My BP was around 87.5kgx5 before I cut. I estimate it around 77.5x5 now. Deadlifts I wasn’t doing. Squats were high-bar and too deep at 80KG for 6-8 reps. Press around 50kg for 8 reps (strict). Today I practiced the Press 2.0 and figured my technique was wrong on the press before (lower back overextended, wrong stance, didn’t properly squeeze abs/quads/glutes, didn’t shrug at the top and did the reps very fast). This time it’s feeling better (did 35kg which was easy for technique practice), normally my lower back would hurt after presses and today it did not.

Thank you guys again!

[Robert Santana]

You are welcome. Now get out of gym bro status and bring up those other lifts. Guys that are big "doing hypertrophy" are "doing hypertrophy" with a lot more weight on the bar.