Exercise substitution in SS

[cskolnick]

Hey Mark. Have both books and think they are great. I was wondering if it is ok to substitute variations of the exercises given while maintaining the same loading scheme?
For instance, at this point i cannot really do a comfortable full squat. I am working on it, but still have some time to go (have some issues at my hips and lower back that really kick in when back squatting). I CAN do a a lumberjack squat (where one end of the barbell is in a corner and you hold the other end up at chest level) and it really helps me nail the form and makes me feel all the right muscles working. Can i use this until i can back squat safely? Also, one shoulder is far weaker then the other due to an injury i sustained a few months ago. Could i do DB presses instead of barbell until the strength has evened out?
Thanks for your time. I am eager to start the program but wanted to check out your opinion on exercise substitution.

[Mark Rippetoe]

If there are substitutions, it's not my program anymore. Full squats are not supposed to be comfortable. If they hurt badly, you're doing them wrong. Sorry about your shoulder, but if you have a shoulder injury that is several months old, it has not been rehabbed aggressively as detailed elsewhere in this forum. Sorry to be so terse, but I get tired of substitution questions.

Post a video of your squat form and I'll look at it.

[cskolnick]

Ha. Well, i appreciate the no BS responses and thanks for even chiming in. Did not realize it gets asked so much.
As for the shoulder, i was an idiot. After i read PPST i realized just how big of one i was by trying to let it heal. I have been working it out lately and even though it fatigues quicker then the right and takes a bit longer to recover it is like night and day.
I will try to get a video up of my form but as far as what makes them "uncomfortable" is at my hips. Every time i squat the outside of my hips hurts. It feels like it is right where the top of the femur meets the hip joint. Even bodyweight squats aggravate it. The pain can also be brought on if i am sitting down and raise my leg (this is when it kicks in) in an attempt to cross it over the other one. Single leg work and the lumberjack do not cause any pain.
If it is of importance, usually the day after a squat session my hamstrings, what i think is my hip flexor and ESPECIALLY the adductors are painfully sore but i do not feel much in my glutes or quads.
Any idea, without seeing a video yet, what could cause the pain?
Thanks again.

[Mark Rippetoe]

The pain you are describing is not really hip joint pain, which is usually perceived in the crotch -- look at a skeletal anatomy chart to see the actual location of the hip joint. You are most likely feeling irritation at the greater trochanteric bursa, at the place where the femur turns the corner and where the glute complex attaches. This area is a problem once it gets inflamed, and is aggravated badly by heavy squats that are cut off just above parallel. This is because the hamstrings and adductors get left out of the job of turning the force around, since they never reach the end of there extensibility and cannot contribute efficiently to rebound. This leaves the glutes to do the whole job, and they get pissed about this. Lighten up, make sure you're deep enough, and work it back up in weight.

[cskolnick]

The pain you are describing is not really hip joint pain, which is usually perceived in the crotch -- look at a skeletal anatomy chart to see the actual location of the hip joint. You are most likely feeling irritation at the greater trochanteric bursa, at the place where the femur turns the corner and where the glute complex attaches. This area is a problem once it gets inflamed, and is aggravated badly by heavy squats that are cut off just above parallel. This is because the hamstrings and adductors get left out of the job of turning the force around, since they never reach the end of there extensibility and cannot contribute efficiently to rebound. This leaves the glutes to do the whole job, and they get pissed about this. Lighten up, make sure you're deep enough, and work it back up in weight.

You are absolutely right. I also think i was trying to hard to keep an upright torso the whole way down and up. basically, i know realize i have not, at all, been keeping the bar in lie with my mid-foot (How i missed that point in SS is beyond me). I used a broomstick and really focused on keeping it in line and PUSHING my butt back (something i know realize you cannot do if trying to stay upright the whole time) and the difference was dramatic.
However, with regards to the bursa being irritated by heavy squats above parallel, i am FAR from squatting heavy; i mostly practice with an empty bar up to two 25s or so. Plus, i also feel it at times when i squat with just my bodyweight or a broomstick.
One thing i have noticed is the wider my stance, generally speaking, the more irritated it gets which makes me think this is causing the pain. Could this be possible?
I always thought that since i was "tall" (about 6'3'' on a good day) that i needed a wider stance because my legs are long. But even though i have quite long legs my femur length is actually very short in relation to the lower leg. Does that at all factor into how someones stance should be?
Thanks again for your time.

[Mark Rippetoe]

If you have not been squatting heavy this way, I don't know. It is possible that your too-wide stance has something to do with it. The shoulder width stance is most usually a good guide, since your shoulder width will be proportionate to your height, unless something is wrong with you.

[cskolnick]

Been away a while just wanted to say thanks again for the feedback. i also just picked up Strong Enough and love it. great book on its own but also an awesome substitute to SS and PP. Between the three i do not see how others do not "get" it.

Thanks
Chris