My deadlift: fear of back injury

[Christopher Button]

Typically I would hold off posting here before having thoroughly reviewed and internalized the relevant literature, i.e. the Deadlift chapter, and then applied what I learn. I need to read it again, and I am going to do this, but nevertheless I come to you with one simple question based on the following footage of tonight's attempt at a mere 200lb deadlift (just started the program):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUYfJ8U2OQA

Am I clearly putting myself at excessive risk of serious back injury with the way that I'm going?

I think I'm jerking the bar, my setup likely isn't optimal, and I may be excessively lordotic in the neck, so these things might well be contributing to improper position of the rest of the spine. I "pussied out" on the final rep and certainly had the strength to complete it. However, I just became increasingly weary of popping or herniating or blowing something out, despite never having hurt my back deadlifting before (which hasn't been terribly long).

Those of you who helped me out or followed along in my squat thread will recognize the abnormal, ugly curvature of my spine, and I am straining like a motherlover to get perfect extension. My back rounds progressively throughout the set, and there appears to be some hideous bulge right above my lumbar spine, so at least with respect to the first couple of reps: Am I on a one-way trip to Snap City?

[djsilvera]

My amateur perspective: You're not raising your chest enough. You seem to be thinking solely about your lumbar. Maybe try pulling your shoulder blades "down" toward your waist as a cue to help tighten your upper back. They're not terrible, so quit the self-deprecation.

[mrcosmic]

Again, I'm a noob, but your back rounds on every rep. Just read and reread and reread the deadlift chapter and all the great advice here on correct set up and execution and relearn your pulling mechanics. Maybe establishing a technical max will be appropriate, or maybe not.

[almost]

Based on the poor wrist position in your squat videos and now this, it looks like you're not able to get yourself into proper thoracic extension. As someone else suggested, the cue is 'chest up' - think about trying to point your nipples up at the ceiling as hard as you can, and learn to feel the muscles in your upper back that put you into this position.

Here's a drill that worked for me: Try standing side on to a mirror and putting your hands on your knees - notice the curve in your upper back? try and straighten this (by lifting your chest) without pushing your ass / lumbar back into extension. Note: be careful not to strain your neck too much by looking in the mirror.

Also, hold the valsalva for the entire movement of the deadlift, don't breathe out at the top as it can affect your spinal rigidity.

[Christopher Button]

Thank you for your replies. I will take into account everything that has been said here (including the cue from Mr. Almost), and have another attempt tomorrow night to see if I can do any better.

Regarding the chest up cue, it may not look like it, but that is pretty much the limit of my thoracic extension. I did another set again tonight, and squeezed my chest up as hard as I could; the muscles in my upper back ached with the strain of extending my spine before the bar had even moved from the ground. On reviewing the footage, I noticed little difference.

I notice a lot of lifters (including Rip) have quite pronounced cases of kyphosis (for whatever reasons), in some cases worse than mine, and can safely pull some pretty tremendous weights compared to anything I am remotely capable of. I would very much like to rid myself of this condition, but my real concern is maintaining that back angle and keeping it steady and rigid during the pull, something I thought I was doing on the first couple of reps until the comment "your back rounds on every rep". Is that referring to my general posture, or am I unacceptably losing rigidity through the movement?

[mrcosmic]

This is also addressed in the book, but a rounded thorax may enable some powerlifters to lift more weight, however they will generally still keep their lumbar spine in extension. It's not necessarily the safest technique, however, as you risk damage to a thoracic disc, or a rib, or a muscle belly. The safest way to deadlift is with the entire back in its anatomically normal position, which is a natural lordotic curve, thoracic extension and a neutral cervical spine. Unless you have pathology that inhibits you from extending your thoracic spine, relearn how to deadlift with your whole back in its anatomically correct position. When you are a lot stronger, then you can decide if you wish to pull with a rounded upper back. Your current form in my opinion (keep in mind I'm a weak novice like you) is unacceptable, and is much more risky than pulling with better posture. Reset to a weight you can pull without your back losing lordosis or thoracic extension. You're spine is also flexing under load, which is more dangerous than starting flexed and extending at the top. The key to keeping the back tight is the chest up cue, the valsava manevour, and squeezing the lumbar erectors and abs into a hard isometric contraction. You might also want to think about contracting the lats. You're also breathing out at the top of the movement; don't breathe until the bar is back on the ground again. It defeats the purpose of the valsava.

[Christopher Button]

I may well have some pathology in this regard; my doctor told me my kyphosis is hereditary, and I can tell you that what you see in the video is the limit of my ability to extend my thoracic spine. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Now, if my back flexion is as bad as you say, then I indeed have a problem. This is a damn shame, as I was looking forward to pulling two plates (finally) within the next few days. The thing is, for the first two reps, I cannot see any noticeable further flexion occur beyond my starting position. The last two definitely I notice it, hence my original concern, so I'm pretty puzzled right now. I guess I'll deload and try working back up.

Thanks again for your input, though. Always nice to have another pair of eyes!

[mrcosmic]

I may well have some pathology in this regard; my doctor told me my kyphosis is hereditary, and I can tell you that what you see in the video is the limit of my ability to extend my thoracic spine. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Now, if my back flexion is as bad as you say, then I indeed have a problem. This is a damn shame, as I was looking forward to pulling two plates (finally) within the next few days. The thing is, for the first two reps, I cannot see any noticeable further flexion occur beyond my starting position. The last two definitely I notice it, hence my original concern, so I'm pretty puzzled right now. I guess I'll deload and try working back up.

Thanks again for your input, though. Always nice to have another pair of eyes!

As I said the different segments of the spine can be flexed separately. Lumbar flexion - which you are doing - is much, much more dangerous than just thoracic flexion; which poses less of a risk on the spine and more of a risk on the shoulder girdle. If you watch rip pull, his thorax is flexed but his lumbar is not. Rip is also an athlete who has been lifting for a very, very long time, and you are not. The role of the lumbar erectors is to isometrically stabilise the lumbar vertebrae, and the role of the discs is to sit squarely between the vertebrae and have a symmetrical stress imposed upon them. If this position is not maintained, then you are expending what Dr Stuart Mcgill has termed "flexion cycles". These flexions cycles will gradually delaminate the annulus fibrosis of the interverterbral discs and allow the nucleus pulposus to herniate. There's a chance that you may adapt to round back deadlifting without getting hurt, but it's more likely that you will herniate a disc, damage a facet joint, or irritate a nearby nerve root. I don't mean to scare you, but its important you accept and understand the risk you are taking. Do you think a 2 plate dl is more important than a healthy spine? The deadlift is as safe an exercise as any other if, and only if, correct back angle is maintained. In the long run you will be much, much, much better off learning to pull with good back position now rather than later on when you are hurt. I don't want to read your MRI report a month or two from now. And yes, it's hard, but that's the point - the exercise challenges your ability to isometrically maintain back angle. Is there a coach near you? As has been said in another thread, if your lift is broken, get a coach to fix it!

[almost]

I've watched the video a few more times and noticed you're making another mistake that needs to be corrected: you're not taking the slack out of the bar before you pull. The deadlift is not a yank or sudden jerk off the ground as you are doing - listen to the bar 'clinking' as you start the pull, this is a sign that you are not sufficiently tight before the pull.

The distance the bar has to move to overcome that gap between the inside top of the weight and the barbell is very small, but if you do not remove it (and use it to your advantage), you are putting huge and very sudden strain on a flexed spine which is just asking for trouble.

You might have read about 'getting uncomfortable' before a pull, and this is key: you must be focused on getting into a safe and strong position, and you assist yourself getting to that point by creating tension up on the bar without lifting the weight off the ground.

There is no glory in lifting 2 plates if you are compromising on safety and long term spinal health to do so.

[BareSteel]

Hi Chris,

This is a tough one to answer accurately - especially the way you worded the question. Your fear is legitimate. We're talking about putting increasingly greater strains on our bodies. For the most part, if we do it with really good technique and load the bar sensibly, we're okay. Yes, you have some amount of kyphosis going on here. Unfortunately, the degree of extra stress that puts on your back during the pull is well out of my league to answer. I paused the video at 0:04 and I see a pretty good lumbar starting position. Certainly as the set progresses and you get tired, your form wanes a bit. You probably have two things going on here: some technique deficiencies which you can improve (ideally with a coach) and some kyphosis - and I'm not sure to what degree the latter can be addressed. Hope this helps, man. I know it's not a concrete answer, but trust that you can get stronger if you do all the right things.