Rip, I was hoping you could give your thoughts on this Deadlifting article

[Domjo54]

http://www.ampedtraining.com/2010/st...ed-deadlifting

The first section at least, although the other two sections discuss some other things I would like to hear your opinion on (such as Bob Peoples' breathing part, which I feel you'll oppose--but I am still more interested on your thoughts on rounded backs in general).

The article isn't short, but it isn't too long, either; shouldn't take more than 5 minutes or so to read. If not, could you direct it to the appropriate forum so that some others could read it?

Thanks Rip for the site, as always.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Reading through this, the guy's been to our seminar. We talk about all of this, explain the hip mechanics of the round-backed position, talk about breathing when lifting non-barbell objects, and basically I completely agree with everything he says here. If Konstantinovs wants to thoracicly round-back, he has a good reason, and both Matt (?) and I explain why the same way, and agree that novices should not do this.

[Domjo54]

Thanks Rip, I appreciate you reading that. A couple more questions...

a) I figured you'd agree with most of it, but what about that Bob Peoples quote? Isn't he saying NOT to use the Valsalva?

b) Should you not use the Valsalva when picking up non-barbells (TVs, etc.)?

c) Do you have any plans to come to Illinois (Chicago-land area) for a seminar? That'd be cool.

[mstrofbass]

Rip, if you don't mind making sure I understand one of the points correctly:

He (and the study he quotes) mentions spine power, and the difference between the forces of the static spine and the spine when it is being extended. Is this because when the spine is static, the muscles are working isometrically, so the only force on it is the minimum amount required to hold the spine in that position, whereas when the spine is actually being extended, the force is increased because of the concentric action of the erectors?

[Bleve]

Here's another place where the upper spine curves down when "lifting" :
http://upupup.aboc.com.au/the-book/03-introduction-to-sprint-training/standing-starts/images/dan-ellis/dan07/image_preview
Something similar?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Thanks Rip, I appreciate you reading that. A couple more questions...

a) I figured you'd agree with most of it, but what about that Bob Peoples quote? Isn't he saying NOT to use the Valsalva?

b) Should you not use the Valsalva when picking up non-barbells (TVs, etc.)?

c) Do you have any plans to come to Illinois (Chicago-land area) for a seminar? That'd be cool.

a. I disagree with Peoples, if that's okay. I think that it is much easier to keep the intervertebral relationships constant with a huge breath and Valsalva than to attempt the Valsalva on low pulmonary volume. He's not saying to NOT Valsalva.

b. The Valsalva is the thing that keeps the spine safe in the absence of neutral intervertebral position, the position you are usually in when lifting awkward objects. Set the back still, big breath and squeeze, and then lift without rotating the spine.

c. We will not be in Chicagoland in the scheduled future. Looks like you'll have to travel like we do.

[Mark Rippetoe]

He (and the study he quotes) mentions spine power, and the difference between the forces of the static spine and the spine when it is being extended. Is this because when the spine is static, the muscles are working isometrically, so the only force on it is the minimum amount required to hold the spine in that position, whereas when the spine is actually being extended, the force is increased because of the concentric action of the erectors?

The study, which I have not read, examines the stone lift, I believe. Stone lifts do not approach 1RM deadlifts in absolute load, and it is possible to produce loaded spinal extension with lighter weights, like in a round-backed goodmorning. Smarter lifters and strongmen will maintain spinal rigidity in flexion to prevent injury. But since everybody that works will lift "wrong" whether they want to or not, it is best to prepare. One of the best ways to prepare is to get your flat-backed deadlift up to 700. When you're that strong, you'll be equipped to decide how to best proceed with a round-back version of the movement.

[savage]

I've maintained flexion in my slightly rounded-back deadlift, which is now at 405 at a BW of 143. I sure as hell kept my back flat when building up to it, though.

[halbritt]

My deadlift is a trainwreck that I've been trying to fix. Try as I might, I can't seem to get my thoracic spine into a position that looks like extension. However, I can lift with a pretty consistently flat lumbar spine. I'm wondering if this is potentially an issue with my anthropometry or whether I'm just a proprioceptive retard.

Obviously, a video would help. I'm just wondering if it's common for guys not to be able to get a straight upper back.

[Mark Rippetoe]

My back is kyphotic too. Nothing I can do about it, but I'm 55.