Time for damage control?

[SamKeyworth]

Hi,

I am kind of new here, though I have been a long time lurker. I have been training for a total of ~13 months, and as with other beginners made a lot of mistakes along the way.

To provide a bit of context, I am currently 25 years old, and prior to training was
- skinny fat
- poor work capacity
- never been in a gym my entire life,

Progression in composition (using 3 site skin fold)
Weight, body fat %, total fat, lean body mass
68 kg (149.6 lb), 17%, 11.56 kg (25.43 lb), 56.44 kg (124.17 lb)
74 kg (162.8 lb), 20%, 14.80 kg (32.56 lb), 59.20 kg (130.24 lb)
78 kg (171.6 lb), 21%, 16.38 kg (36.04 lb), 61.62 kg (135.56 lb)
72 kg (158.4 lb), 14%, 10.08 kg (22.18 lb), 61.92 kg (136.22 lb)
84 kg (184.8 lb), 20%, 16.80 kg (36.96 lb), 67.20 kg (147.84 lb)

Height: 170 cm (5 " 7)
Total net weight gain: 16 kg (35.20 lb)
Total net fat gain: 5.24 kg (11.53 lb)
Total net lean body mass gain: 10.76 kg (23.67 lb)

Progression in lifts
Squat: 40 kg (88 lb), 3x5 --> 140 kg (308 lb), 3x5
Deadlift: 60 kg (132 lb), 1x5 --> 160 kg (352 lb), 1x5
Benchpress: could not do a single push up --> 80 kg (176 lb), 3x5
Power clean: the bar --> 85 kg (187 lb), 5x3
Press: could not press broom stick --> 45 kg (99 lb), 3x5
Chin up: zero --> 15,14,13
2 miles (3.2 km): 25 minutes --> 14 minutes, oddly enough running a better time with more body fat and weight.

My bench press, and press seem a bit behind, though I think its a psychological thing, and working hard on it.

At the beginning I was extremely meticulous, and micromanaged everything to the very minute detail. It took me the last 4 months, to realise all this micromanagement in diet was not adding much to my results. In fact, the last 3-4 months, is where I've made the most progress in strength, it was almost like a huge surge.

In short, my diet is basically eat enough to drive progression. Protein set anywhere from 150-200 grams, and the rest is made through grains, eggs, and milk.

I am pretty embarrassed I kept all these records, in fact I threw away my calipers, threw away my detailed food logs, and most of my old excel spreadsheets that were meant to help me.

The dilemma is such that I am in two minds of what to do:

1. Bleed whatever I am doing dry. Why change anything when the last 3-4 months have produced the best overall results. Also, these lifting concepts are becoming clearer, as more and more plates are added for some reason.

2. Time for damage control fatty. Spend 2 months cutting back calories slightly, and dropping some weight

Sorry if my post was a bit long, I thought it might be appropriate to provide some context. I feel with option 2. I may lose the momentum I have gained in the last 3 months, however, it may be the best option in terms of calorie partitioning.

I don't know maybe I need to take a few steps backwards, before pushing forwards, or maybe I am just over thinking it!

[gzt]

Damage control? What damage are you controlling? Keep getting stronger for a while. Your BP:SQ ratio is about what mine was at that point in the progression, too, FYI. I think you'll find it easier to lose fat when you're throwing around even
higher weight, so you may as well milk this progression for another month or two and then worry about trimming down.

[August West]

Chin up: zero --> 15,14,13
2 miles (3.2 km): 25 minutes --> 14 minutes, oddly enough running a better time with more body fat and weight.

If you can crank out 3 sets of chins with those numbers and sustain a 7 min/mile pace, you're not what I'd call a fat man. If you're making gains with your current habits, why stop now? Sounds to me like there's no problem here. If you backed off and never got your press above 100, now that would be a problem.

[SamKeyworth]

Thanks for the replies.

We have a corporate 3.8 km (2.3 miles + with up hill) run that is done in groups. Most people at my work are doing around <14 minutes, though they are really really skinny.

Ideally I would like to keep up with them so I don't let the team down, but I guess strength is my main priority.

I've also had to cut down my running and running intensity a fair bit, the last few months, in order to get the lifts up.

So 14 minutes, isn't exactly "comfortable pace". My tshirt is basically drenched in sweat.

[astanto2]

Sam,

That's really, really great progress. I'm much newer to this than you are, and much less knowledgeable, I'm sure, but wonder:

1. Are you still on a novice progression, or have you moved to intermediate? I assume from the fact that you've been at it 13 months that you are intermediate, but I guess the time to reach that point varies from person to person, so you never know.

2. If you are on a novice progression, have you reset, and how many times?

From what I gather from the books, it's advisable to exhaust the novice progression before making a determination re: training priorities as an intermediate. In other words, take the easy gains while they're there to be gotten. If you'd exhausted a novice progression, though, I think it's generally the case that it's easier to maintain strength while trying to reduce bodyfat than it would be if you were still a novice.

Good luck, great work -

[SamKeyworth]

Sam,

That's really, really great progress. I'm much newer to this than you are, and much less knowledgeable, I'm sure, but wonder:

1. Are you still on a novice progression, or have you moved to intermediate? I assume from the fact that you've been at it 13 months that you are intermediate, but I guess the time to reach that point varies from person to person, so you never know.

2. If you are on a novice progression, have you reset, and how many times?

From what I gather from the books, it's advisable to exhaust the novice progression before making a determination re: training priorities as an intermediate. In other words, take the easy gains while they're there to be gotten. If you'd exhausted a novice progression, though, I think it's generally the case that it's easier to maintain strength while trying to reduce bodyfat than it would be if you were still a novice.

Good luck, great work -

Hi, astanto2

I would say I have a bit to go with novice progression. My bench press and press is really no where it should be. I guess it may be because I could only do 1 push up to begin with, when most guys can do like 20 before starting.

Sadly, thats how weak I was to begin with, you could break my arms.

My squat and deadlift are progressing well, but I think this has a lot to do with me putting more focus on it without realising. You tend to be motivated on lifts you enjoy, benchpress does not fall in that category!

Realistically, I have only been doing the program "properly" for about ~3 months.

I would say the first 8 months I really messed up, and it was more about learning compliance. I was not eating enough, lacked intensity, overcomplicated things, and did stupid amounts of volume.

C2 rowing, running, high intensity interval training, you name it.

I guess if you get everything right to begin with, the novice phase can be shortened. But the reality is, most people tend to over complicated things and do stupid stuff.

Heck most people at global gyms (fitness first, etc), never make it out past
the "competent" stage, and lift the same weight year round.

I guess I am happy with my progress, but also aware of the fact that at some stage I am going to have to cut down on this body fat.

Note: I've reset 2 times.

[hbriem]

You've achieved all of this in 13 months with next to no fat gain and you want to do something different? Why?

[Alyion]

I agree with the others, there is no point in massively cutting down, perhaps there is no need to inhale everything in sight, but if I were you, i'd probably maintain weight and see how further you can squeeze progression out of, once you exhausted it, then either lean down or carry on, but I would imagine you body comp/fitness can only improve.

[grambo]

Step 1: What are your goals? If you want to run faster you will have to train running at various distances/pace.

If you've been making gains in strength and overall body comp I would at least exhaust the linear gains. Congrats, that is awesome progress you've made.

[SamKeyworth]

I would just like to clarify what I mean by "damage control".

My definition of damage control is simply spend ~8 weeks of restricting calories, to lose 5-6% body fat, then increasing calorie intake again. I purposely did not use the word "cutting", as a lot of people assume this means dropping down to 10% body fat so you can see the 6 pack abs.

Note, If I were to try to maintain this current weight, I would also have to drop calories. Because, at this rate I am headed towards 90 kg (198 lb) at 5"7, and feeling a bit uncomfortable at this body fat.

In terms of goals, my priority is to maximize strength and push it as far as I can. I realize running may be counter productive, but I do it more as a social thing and because I enjoy it. Also, a lot of charity based fund raisers are also distance events.

I guess, I can work on the running later. On the bright side, the squatting does seem to be helping with running up hills.