Louie Simmons on Wide Stance Squat

[Tom Campitelli]

Louie Simmons has an interesting video over at CrossFit on the wide stance squat:

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...WideStance.wmv

He makes the claim that a wide stance squat translates narrower, but a narrower stance does not translate wider.

[Smack]

My wide stance squat didn't translate to a bigger narrow stance squat at all.

[Raskolnikov]

I wonder why guys like Matt K use a relatively narrow stance (shoulder to just outside shoulder width) for much of their unequipped training? As do the vast majority of guys who compete in RAW or single ply feds. I suppose an argument could be made that an o-lifter who exclusively uses a fairly narrow stance high bar squat might benefit from wide stance squats (more adductor and hamstring involvement), but considering most of us squat in a way that already incorporates those muscles, I just don't see the utility in an ultra-wide stance.

[Smack]

No disrespect to Louie, but, like everyone else, is not right all the time, and I think this may be one of those instances, given that Westside aren't exactly renowned for producing world class single ply and raw lifters.

I wonder why guys like Matt K use a relatively narrow stance (shoulder to just outside shoulder width) for much of their unequipped training? As do the vast majority of guys who compete in RAW or single ply feds. I suppose an argument could be made that an o-lifter who exclusively uses a fairly narrow stance high bar squat might benefit from wide stance squats (more adductor and hamstring involvement), but considering most of us squat in a way that already incorporates those muscles, I just don't see the utility in an ultra-wide stance.

Plus, wide stance squats tear up the hips unless you're wearing briefs. Which are quite costly. I think many Westside affiliated places sell them as well for maybe a bit cheaper, I dunno...

[StLRPh]

Plus, wide stance squats tear up the hips unless you're wearing briefs. Which are quite costly. I think many Westside affiliated places sell them as well for maybe a bit cheaper, I dunno...

I think that this is right on point.

[Kincain]

wouldn't a wide stance contribute to how deep you have to go in the squat just as the deadlift, when people use a sumo stance and wear no soles (ballet shoes). Maybe it has to do with the heigth

[Gary Gibson]

wouldn't a wide stance contribute to how deep you have to go in the squat just as the deadlift, when people use a sumo stance and wear no soles (ballet shoes). Maybe it has to do with the heigth

All these points have been spot on.

Kincain, what you said--plus the nature of multi-ply gear--contributes to the depth issues that go along with wide stance squatting in a monolift in certain feds. You can only set up that wide if you don't have to walk the weight out. And you can't go very deep if you set up that wide and are wearing extremely supportive gear.

This reminds me of Louie's insistence on box squat carryover. I found that box squats taught me to sit back, but didn't train the hamstring pre-stretch for regular squats, nor did they teach me to hold the weight in the hole the way pause squats would have. I'm sure box squats DO carry over to squatting in extreme gear with lots of stopping power. I say this based on the results of people who use extreme gear and rave about the box squat.

Box squats probably also don't fatigue the hip muscles the way regular squats do and can thus be trained more often. (wide stance box squats also carry over to the sumo deadlift, btw, without beating up the grip.) Box squats make sense for very strong people using multi-ply in a monolift, but less sense for single-ply and raw lifters (but, again, they do help raw sumo pulling). I suspect much the same can be said for wide stance squats.

To quote ol' Rip (yet again!), wide stance squats are great if you're a powerlifter using gear (and a monolift) and trying to move more weight. But a wide stance leaves out a lot of quad involvement. A regular stance trains more muscle and has more carryover to other sporting activities which involve the quads...which is pretty much EVERY other sporting activity.

[grambo]

All these points have been spot on.

Kincain, what you said--plus the nature of multi-ply gear--contributes to the depth issues that go along with wide stance squatting in a monolift in certain feds. You can only set up that wide if you don't have to walk the weight out. And you can't go very deep if you set up that wide and are wearing extremely supportive gear.

This reminds me of Louie's insistence on box squat carryover. I found that box squats taught me to sit back, but didn't train the hamstring pre-stretch for regular squats, nor did they teach me to hold the weight in the hole the way pause squats would have. I'm sure box squats DO carry over to squatting in extreme gear with lots of stopping power. I say this based on the results of people who use extreme gear and rave about the box squat.

Box squats probably also don't fatigue the hip muscles the way regular squats do and can thus be trained more often. (wide stance box squats also carry over to the sumo deadlift, btw, without beating up the grip.) Box squats make sense for very strong people using multi-ply in a monolift, but less sense for single-ply and raw lifters (but, again, they do help raw sumo pulling). I suspect much the same can be said for wide stance squats.

To quote ol' Rip (yet again!), wide stance squats are great if you're a powerlifter using gear (and a monolift) and trying to move more weight. But a wide stance leaves out a lot of quad involvement. A regular stance trains more muscle and has more carryover to other sporting activities which involve the quads...which is pretty much EVERY other sporting activity.

Great post. I personally don't have any experience with super wide stance box squatting, geared powerlifting etc. so that may limit that validity of my opinion. However, I haven't read anything that has said that wide stance translates better to narrow stance. If that were true, wouldn't Westside lifters have better vertical leap/max box jumps than olympic weightlifters?

Louie is an amazing powerlifting coach, and his lifters can exert insane amounts of power through the type of geared squat they do, but what matters for the general strength community is athletic carryover. Ironically, this is also what CrossFit should be interested in, and it would seem that Rip's style of squat is much better suited so that goal. I think it's going to look pretty stupid when we start seeing pictures from CF affiliate gyms of people super wide box squatting less than their bodyweight while wearing running shoes. What's the point of learning powerlifting techniques when you are fundamentally weak.

[Phil Stevens]

I wonder why guys like Matt K use a relatively narrow stance (shoulder to just outside shoulder width) for much of their unequipped training? As do the vast majority of guys who compete in RAW or single ply feds. I suppose an argument could be made that an o-lifter who exclusively uses a fairly narrow stance high bar squat might benefit from wide stance squats (more adductor and hamstring involvement), but considering most of us squat in a way that already incorporates those muscles, I just don't see the utility in an ultra-wide stance.

Because it hurts and they dont have the support of the equipment to hold them tight when training Raw. The binding and hip pain is not conducive to doing them in the ultra wide stance without the equipment. Matt K has also stated much of his narrow stance squatting is to bring up the starting strength of his DL.

[Phil Stevens]

I think it's going to look pretty stupid when we start seeing pictures from CF affiliate gyms of people super wide box squatting less than their bodyweight while wearing running shoes. What's the point of learning powerlifting techniques when you are fundamentally weak.

LOL classic