Need information to convince boss to start a SS class in gym

[SeanM]

Hello Rip,

Much appreciate your time, should you consider my question.

At our Gym, I am pitching that we begin to offer novice strength programming classes for the public. I'm pushing a SS model. One of my collegeues is suggesting a more "simple" method.

When I look into our market, I am seeing two main offerings

METHOD A
95% of competiton-offerings lacking any clear weight goal at the begining of the lift.
Their member turns up and are told "Today is BS day, lift 5 x 3 to a PR...go".
From my observations this lack of "set weight goals" tends to cause the athlete to underlift or overlift, both retarding gains.

METHOD B
A few offer a more complex system where there is a set logic for weight progressions, much like SS suggests, and the weigh to lift is set before lifting begins.


In your books you strongly suggest the more organised method is wiser, but my collegue argues that, considering our client base, the "simple" method achieves almost as much gains as the "complex" method, and is way less hassel.

To provide an argument to my boss, considering our customer base (novice), how much more effective do you think it is to offer "Targeted Effort" / "Set Goals" for each lift vs the just lift until you reach a PR?

And is there ever a place for this "Lazy" method?

Thanks again for your time

Sean

[Mark Rippetoe]

Method A is not really a method. Just tell him about your own experience with the SS novice model and show him your training log.

[SeanM]

Much appreciate the reply Rip,

I certainly have the training log to show that, but I've never done Method A, and have no real data to see what they achieve, to counter their argument.

I guess I'm asking would you agree with this statement? Or if not what changes woud you make to it.

"For a relatively under motivated "Novice Joe Public" client base, the "5 x 3 Just lift to a PR" method of LP weight goal setting, will cause many if not most of this type of client to either; Underlift and miss optimal adaptation, causing slow gains; or cause them to Overlift, and combined with their questionable recovery habits, likely over fatigue them and cause early stalling. I would suggest clients of this type could in general reach true intermediate level strength 25 - 50% faster using a "targeted goal" method, such that SS prescribes, over a "Just lift to PR" method.

Yeah, now I've read that it comes across a bit cheekly, I'm hopping it might prime you to give me a sound bit, I can take to my boss.

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my first post.

Cheers

Sean

[Les Hahn]

Maxing out triples, fives, or whatever you roll on the 10 sided die seems like a disaster waiting to happen with new lifters. "Your form sucks, let's hit a max." :-)

[Mark Rippetoe]

Man, I don't know what to tell you, other than the fact that we've sold 400,000 copies of the book that details this method. It works. If he can't be bothered to look at this website, you're probably working for the wrong guy.

[SeanM]

Man, I don't know what to tell you, other than the fact that we've sold 400,000 copies of the book that details this method. It works. If he can't be bothered to look at this website, you're probably working for the wrong guy.

lol, yeah OK, I was looking for the easy solution from you Rip,
I'll go for the hard sell...

Thanks again for great books and great website, I'm learning more every day.

Cheers

Sean

[Satch12879]

Also, if you and/or your boss thinks the SS novice program is "complicated," then there's no hope for the world.

[Clay Simczyk]

You don't pitch it to the gym. You just start coaching people individually.

[George Christiansen]

You might want to take a quick read through this thread before wasting any more of your time, Mark.

http://startingstrength.com/resource...e-lifting.html

Sean essentially wants to sell your ideas, which he doesn't really grasp, as his program and then armed with this inadequate knowledge, offer subpar coaching for large classes that would be too much for a much better coach.

His dog probably ate his log and he doesn't want to just give his the boss the book because that would very quickly make Sean an unnecessary part of the equation.

On the bright side: at least "Madcow" is already taken for a shitty spin off.

[SeanM]

You might want to take a quick read through this thread before wasting any more of your time, Mark.

http://startingstrength.com/resource...e-lifting.html

Sean essentially wants to sell your ideas, which he doesn't really grasp, as his program and then armed with this inadequate knowledge, offer subpar coaching for large classes that would be too much for a much better coach.

His dog probably ate his log and he doesn't want to just give his the boss the book because that would very quickly make Sean an unnecessary part of the equation.

On the bright side: at least "Madcow" is already taken for a shitty spin off.

Gawd George, did you really just go running to Daddy?

I'm asking you some questions, if you don't want to answer that's fine. But right now you're throwing your toys, cos you lack the comprehension skills to read my posts correctly.
You seriously think I want to run 20 person classes....lol. Go read my post again....

...I started explaining myself here to answer your ridiculous post...but then I realised I was being just like one of those keyboard warriors having a public flame war over the interweb.....I'm not that guy...and I suspect neither are you.

Best of luck mate

S