Running Training Program + SS

[m1nt]

Hello,

On my school's varsity cross country team, we are strongly recommended to do as much of a summer program as possible to get ready for the season in the fall. The mileage is about 25-30 miles per week, 6 days a week. I have been doing SS, and it's been going great--squatted 225 3x5 the other day at 142 lbs--but I realize that doing well in cross country is more important than doing SS verbatim. Is there any way to modify the SS program so that I would be able to recover from the challenging workouts in the running program? I worry that running six days a week with half being tough workouts would not allow me to recover and build muscle effectively.

Thanks

[dkggpeters]

If you are a runner by nature then your recovery from running will be better then other people. I am currently running 40 miles a week, soon to go to 50, and have still been making strength gains on SS. I am also not trying to gain weight and am almost 48 so my recovery is not as good as yours. If you eat enough and get enough rest you should be ok. Your gains will not be as quick as if you were not running but you can still make progress. The hard part is not burning out as you will have doubles on some days and 9 training sessions.

[dsp]

Maybe reduced volume would work for you, or a light day, or making smaller jumps, or a day where you don't squat, or dropping your squat work weights come running season, or squatting on a swiss ball, or just eating a shitton and making sure you get 10 hours of sleep.

One suggestion isnt serious


edit- oh, and don't try TM. 5x5 squats will leave you limping through your runs.

[m1nt]

squatting on a swiss ball
One suggestion isnt serious

i think this might happen... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSoC9qGjgzw
this guy's got it down http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fO1zuBCMQ0


but thanks for your suggestions, i will definitely be eating a lot and sleeping (summer time), so would it be best to take out squats on say, wendesday to give me a better recovery for monday + friday?

[Sven Draconian]

I would jump straight to the advanced novice template, and slow the progression. You would squat 3x5 on Mon/Fri, light squat (maybe even just 1x5) on Wed0. Only pull once a week (Wed). You could even get away from pressing on Weds.

It would look like...
Mon:
Squat
Bench
Chins

Wed:
Squat light
Dead/Clean

Fri:
Squat
Press
Chins

I'd personally avoid GHR and back extensions. Too tough on the hammies/low back with that volume of running. Personal opinion based on my experience.

Progress slowly, only going 2.5 pound jumps on the squat (maybe the occasional 5 pound jump).

[veryhrm]

A couple of things:
1) what year are you ? how long are your races ?
2) How much do you REALLY care about cross country? Distance running is probably the sport that is least friendly to extra mass. At the elite level even extra muscle actually works against you. Is this really something that you want to optimize yourself for ? (have you considered swimming? water polo ? mma ? :-) )

3) If you're willing to experiment, do some research into doing HIIT for distance running purposes. Basically, instead of your normal 5 miles at a steady pace every day running you do intervals of sprinting and walking for most of your workouts and then just do say one long run every week or two. Many say that the intervals (whether the crazy all out HIIT / Tabata style or more moderate intervals) have very good carryover to the actual distance running and that it is overall a much superior way of training for distance than just doing volume work. It is relevant to this conversation because intervals will also be less bad for your strength gains and muscle mass because they are not catabolic like lsd work is.
see e.g.:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/0...inutes-a-week/
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/0...se-their-pace/
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/0...-help-you-run/

Those aren't workout plans but they lay out some of the theory. Since it's the summer, and there isn't a coach barking at you, this would be the time to experiment. Find or put together a plan that has say 3 days of 20 minutes of interval work during the week and then go for a longer run on once a week. (Your "1RM" training). Try it out for a few weeks and see if it works for you.

[dkggpeters]

Couple of other points:

1.) Extra weight will slow you down. 2 seconds per mile per pound. I have proved this.
2.) Make smaller weight increase increments and when training is full bore just work on keeping strength gained. You will mos likely lose some of it but you will get it back quickly after the season.
3.) You may want to consider training 2 days a week once the season begins. When I ran Cross in HS we ran 2 a days and the training was intense. This is why I say now HIIT for now as stated below.
4.) Try and squat only 2 days a week and try and do before a rest day so you give time for your body to recover. Running the day after squats can be tough.
5.) For the summer you are putting in more lower intensity training most likely which really is easy on the body. If you are a runner don't worry about the HIIT training crap as you will get plenty of it later int he summer and for the remainder of the season. It will burn you out if you are only base building now. If you are a natural runner then 5 miles and an easy to moderate pace is easy to recover from.
6.) Find out what works for you on lifting before running or lifting after running.

[Ryan Dell Whitley]

Bottom line: Don't do SS if you're interested in continuing your running. There are other strength programs out there that would definitely be a better fit for you.

[ColoWayno]

Bottom line: Don't do SS if you're interested in continuing your running. There are other strength programs out there that would definitely be a better fit for you.

I second this. SS won't work like it's supposed to if you are running that much.
One other option is to cut your running to a couple of days per week doing low mileage with some intervals and run SS for 6 weeks as prescribed. SS was never meant to be run forever anyway and the strength you gain over that time frame might serve you well over a long season of running.
Back in season, try to lift once a week as heavy as you can (but light is better than nothing). You can alternate dead lifts with power cleans and also alternate presses. Squat every week.

[m1nt]

I have read about the benefits of HIIT here -- http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/HIIT.html, http://www.exrx.net/FatLoss/HIITvsET.html

i'm in 10th grade, and for our high school meets we run a 5000m course in the woods
although i am determined to be a better runner, i do think the shorter track distances which i run in the spring are better suited for me (800m, 1500m), so i'm not too concerned about a couple seconds lost because of extra muscle
this year i tried nordic for the first time in my life, it was ok, but i think i might try wrestling next year, which would probably suit me better for the strength i gained on SS
the only thing i worry about with HIIT is when i should incorporate it into my summer training--if it's too early, i know i will peak too early and have a disappointing season, and i also run the risk of being injured, since i've had shin splints twice already... when would be the best time to incorporate HIIT? i have 12 weeks until my pre-season starts
personally, i love HIIT though, and i can't wait to do it because it really makes me feel like i'm giving it my all and working hard to improve it with more time left to enjoy the summer

so, would doing the advanced novice be best, since it has front squats = less weight?
if not, what would you suggest, RyanDellWhitley and ColoWayno, instead of SS?

i know i'll probably only be able lift once or twice a week during the season, anyways, because we have races every wednesday and saturday


thanks again for all your help, i really appreciate it