Can't power clean, should I keep deadlifting every workout or...?

[Tim K]

Hi Rip, this is my first post. I've read SS and PPST (well, not every word but I have used it more as a reference) and gone through all 500+ pages of this forum as recommended in one of the sticky posts... so hopefully I won't raise your ire too much with this query.

Background info: I'm 30 years old with some prior lifting experience. Last significant period of training in the past was for about 7 months in 2010. I went from 275 in Nov. '09 down to 198 in July '10 (didn't start lifting until January). I was ignorantly following a bodybuilding-type split routine but I managed to get to the following PRs:

Squat: 315x5
Deadlift: 455x5
Bench: 215x5
Press: 135x5

Then I got a new job, moved, stopped training, and have only been in the gym a random month at a time here and there over the last five years and ended up gaining back a lot of the weight.

Anyway, I started again at the beginning of November at a weight of 253 lbs (5'11") with a high bf%. My goal is to get as strong as possible while still losing fat. Luckily this time I have been following the SS program and my current progress looks like this after 8 weeks (3x5 weights, except for deadlift which is 1x5):

Squat: 165 -> 340
Deadlift: 235 -> 460 (this is with straps btw. alternate grip is rough on my shoulder/bicep and hook grip feels weaker than double overhand due to fat palms)
Bench: 145 -> 195
Press: 75 -> 130
BW: 253 -> 242

I never thought I would pass my previous squat and deadlift PRs so quickly, makes me wonder what would have happened if I did starting strength back in 2010 instead of squatting and deadlifting just once a week. Or maybe it's just that regaining previous strength goes faster. Either way I'm very pleased with how it's been going.

However, the one thing I haven't done yet is add power cleans. I am unable to achieve the rack position, even with a loaded bar on the rack. I seem to have the long forearm problem (can't get the bar to rest on my delts at the bottom of the press) combined with very inflexible shoulders. So up until now I've still been doing deadlifts every workout.

After hitting 455 I have now switched to 5lb jumps on deadlifts and did 460 today. I'm wondering if I should keep deadlifting every workout, doing 5lb jumps until I stall, or if I should start alternating with chins and back extensions and try to do 10lb jumps? That would reduce deadlift frequency giving more recovery but still keep the same rate of progress... or should I just alternate while only doing 5lb jumps (thus slowing progress but maybe not stalling as soon?) Or should I try to learn the power snatch? I'm leery of this because I don't have bumper plates at my gym. Also I'm not training for any explosive sporting endeavors. I just want to keep progressing in the main lifts.

I would love to get my deadlift up to 500 for 3x5 while still on linear progression but I don't know if that is feasible. Right now though I think I can keep going with 5lb jumps for a while, just want to be smart about programming it so I don't stall too early. My squats are starting to feel really heavy, and the last rep is quite a grind on each set, but I haven't missed any reps yet.

Also, if doing the chins and back extensions is the way to go, should I use weight for these? I can only do 3x3 chins so should I just keep doing this waiting for the reps to increase or would it be better to add weight and get stronger that way?

Thanks for the help.

[Mark Rippetoe]

How do you know you can't rack the clean? Have you been coached on the movement? Was the coach competent?

[Tim K]

How do you know you can't rack the clean? Have you been coached on the movement? Was the coach competent?

I have not been coached, just read your book and a lot of posts on the forum. There was one where Tamara Reynolds was going back and forth with a guy trying to figure out if he could get into the rack position and I believe she posted a video where she had the bar loaded to maybe 115 or so on the rack and was showing how to get into the rack position from there to see if it's even possible. I can't remember if that guy was able to do it or not but I tried it and there was no way to do it, at least not with both arms at the same time. The only way I can get my shoulder to touch the bar is with it all the way to the last joint of my index and middle fingers, and that point my wrist is bent back at 90 degrees and my elbows are pointed down, not forward like they should be. I can force an elbow up/forward but only by twisting my shoulders and moving the other arm farther out of position.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Drive over to Lansing and get some help from Chris Kurisko at Black Iron.

Black Iron Training

[Tim K]

Drive over to Lansing and get some help from Chris Kurisko at Black Iron.

Black Iron Training

Thanks, I'll get in touch with him and see about setting up a session. Will have to be next week at the earliest for me though, and no idea what his schedule is like. In the meantime just keep doing 5lb jumps every workout on my deadlift?

[Mark Rippetoe]

if it's working, sure.

[Tim K]

So on Wednesday I managed to get 345x5x3 on my squat and I did 465x5 for my deadlift set. Today (Friday) I was able to complete my first set at 350 but the fourth rep felt about as hard as Wednesday's fifth reps and the fifth rep was the hardest rep I can remember ever completing. I wasn't able to hold the valsalva and exhaled at about the halfway point on the way up after being stalled there for a second. Somehow I finished the rep but there was no way I could have got another set of five. I waited 10 minutes and then my plan was to do a couple of back off sets at 315. Then I barely got through the first 315 set so I didn't try another.

My questions now are:

1. Did I handle this correctly? I figured it was better to not try another set knowing that I wasn't going to get through since going to failure would adversely affect recovery.
2. Given I seem to have discovered my "true" 5RM at 350, should I try to get 3 sets of five again on Monday after a two day rest, or reset a bit?
3. I assume this would be a good time to add the light squat day on Wednesday?

Thanks for the help.

[Mark Rippetoe]

You cannot determine a true 5RM based on one workout that demonstrated a lack of recovery from the previous. There may have been other factors involved in the bad day, e.g. diet, sleep, outside stress. Chris can help you with this too.