Hamstring question

[JD93]

Hi Rip. I've searched around but there's nothing on these boards that really answers this question I've got. Let me preface this by saying that I don't actually care for hamstring curls(I'm just puzzled) so their inferiority to compound movements isn't really relevant here.

The question is this: Does hamstring strength gained from knee flexion exercises have any transfer to squats or deads?

My thought process:
If excessive knee flexion can completely kill hamstring tension in a squat, this means that all the individual hamstring muscles would be involved in a leg curl. So if one gets stronger on the leg curl, I don't understand how the hamstrings wouldn't be benefitted during squats or deadlifts as is commonly asserted on the web.

Thanks.

[Mark Rippetoe]

How much weight can you leg curl?

[Will Morris]

Hi Rip. I've searched around but there's nothing on these boards that really answers this question I've got. Let me preface this by saying that I don't actually care for hamstring curls(I'm just puzzled) so their inferiority to compound movements isn't really relevant here.

The question is this: Does hamstring strength gained from knee flexion exercises have any transfer to squats or deads?

My thought process:
If excessive knee flexion can completely kill hamstring tension in a squat, this means that all the individual hamstring muscles would be involved in a leg curl. So if one gets stronger on the leg curl, I don't understand how the hamstrings wouldn't be benefitted during squats or deadlifts as is commonly asserted on the web.

Thanks.

How much hip extension does a leg curl require?

[JD93]

How much weight can you leg curl?

I don't know.

[JD93]

None. But if strength is a general trait, and the hamstring contracts during both knee flexion and hip extension exercises, will there really be no carryover?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Depends on how much you squat and deadlift, how strong your hamstrings are from that, and if you think that leg curls would make them stronger.

[JD93]

Depends on how much you squat and deadlift, how strong your hamstrings are from that, and if you think that leg curls would make them stronger.

Thanks.

[quikky]

I find it difficult to make people think in terms of movements vs. individual muscles. We've been so ingrained in thinking that weight lifting exercises are about targeting muscle X as opposed to movement Y, that we don't understand how a movement can target muscles more appropriately than isolation work.

I've met a guy at my local globo gym when I was working in with him on the power rack. For reasons I can't remember, he started talking about shoulder health and how he does all kinds of PT-esque shoulder/rotator cuff rubber band, twisty, pully kind of things. He said he was afraid that big lifts don't target the small muscles enough. I asked him how he knows how strong each little muscle in his shoulder is supposed to be. He replied that he tries to do a variety of shoulder work to sort of target all of them. I asked why, in the context of an exercise like the press, wouldn't each little muscle do its fair share of work based on its anatomically determined role in a heavy compound shoulder movement, and, consequently, get appropriately strong. I further told him that since it is not realistically possible to know exactly how strong each muscle should be relative to one another, that isolating them has a higher chance of destabilizing the shoulder joint, than simply doing a natural movement and loading it appropriately. His response was essentially "hmm...".

A lot of BS out there, and it's not easy making people understand things.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I further told him that since it is not realistically possible to know exactly how strong each muscle should be relative to one another, that isolating them has a higher chance of destabilizing the shoulder joint, than simply doing a natural movement and loading it appropriately.

This one sentence refutes the majority of modern Physical Therapy.

[John Janecek]

This one sentence refutes the majority of modern Physical Therapy.

This is a big reason I got away from using glute hams so much with my athletes. Has not hurt them one bit to not do any "isolation" work on the hamstrings in fear of hamtsrings exploding on the track or football field. The injury is almsot nonexistent here..