Where is the inflection point for risk/benefit of more weight on the bar?

[BPJ]

As contemplate a big reset following 2x inguinal hernia repair, I don’t know how to think about my goals, and what do do when I hit them. I had an ambitious 2018 masterplan, which went to crap within the first two weeks of January due to a major injury, and am trying to wrap my head around the ramifications.

I totally get the mindset that you should always be moving forward, and that once you stop putting more weight on the bar you’ve given up. And I’ve had that mindset myself.

But realistically, as a 52 year old guy (5’11”, 215#) do I really need to squat more than 405? And if I keep adding the weight, isn’t there some theoretical inflection point where the risk of injury (and therefore a setback) outweighs the additional strength I could gain should everything go well?

(Obviously it would be different for everyone based on genes, age, history, and how much psychic benefit they gain from constantly hitting PRs).

So let’s say 405# squat is good enough - especially if I get to my arbitrary goal BW of 200-205. Then do I stick with maintenance on the squat and focus on a bodyweight press? And then maybe catching my DL up to my squat?

I can’t imagine ever having the mindset “I win at barbells, so I’m done”, but isn’t there a point where other physical goals could provide more benefit with less risk? And probably at some age, not going down will take more effort than going UP was in the past.

Or is this just all just self-defeating BS that is polluting my brain just due to being in a lot of pain, and disappointment at losing the first 1/4-1/3 of my training year?

[Nockian]

I always begin with answering the question "what was my purpose and the value in doing X? "

Beyond sickness, old age and injury, has anything actually changed ?

Each set back is just another handicap - you might never lift what you did prior to your injury, just as you won't likely lift what you could have done when you 21, but if the purpose is to stay as strong as possible, then the competition isn't about how strong you once were, but how strong you want to be today. The competition is against your aging body and if you have selected weight training as the most effective measure, then why would you change that ? Because you got injured ? That could have occured anyway, has you been weaker it might have happened much earlier than it did.

[Marenghi]

Good thoughts!

It depends on many factors: Your needs, your body, your ressources, your other obligations.

A steel/coal mine worker of your age with a large frame at 6´5 without any major orthopedic issues profits from a high absolute level of strength that is protective for him and one that due to his genetics he can achieve easily. So why shouldnt he? A desk office worker with some orthopedic issues with a small frame at 5´8 would be much nearer to his genetic limit wanted he to achieve the same level of strength increasing his risk - and he even doesnt profit that much from it.

As with pretty much any quality, there is a huge profit from zero to a decent level - then the additional benefits get smaller. The typical logarithmic growth curve (see training time and strength, for example).

While risk is the exact opposite: Exponential growth curve.

This is the long-time framework.

For now, first cheer up and recover. Youre a bit knackered mentally by your injuries, these and that feeling will pass. But depending how hard it is for you to improve further, how beneficial it is for you life you can decide to go on the same, more slowly or even just maintain. For general health barring high daily physical demands, there certainly is little benefit of a higher squat than 405 - and even the general health benefits between 405 and 305 probably are already miniscule.

[Amy-in-PHX]

If you want something to compare your strength to, there are the freebie charts offered by Lon Kilgore, here:
FREE GYM RESOURCES
The weights in the chart for women over 60 seem on the conservative side to me, since I've already surpassed the chart weight (which is supposed to be a 1RM) for a geezer woman of my size at novice level on Deadlift, for a set of 5, after just 6 weeks of novice LP. Maybe the chart will make you feel better about the weights you can still lift, even while you are rehabbing.

I feel like it's not realistic to consider infinity the limit of my strength. But yeah, it's hard to decide what goal to set, and then what to do next after reaching that goal. There are so many variables. I hope you get it worked out in a way that satisfies you and keeps you injury-free in future.

[Keith Burnett]

If you want something to compare your strength to, there are the freebie charts offered by Lon Kilgore, here:
FREE GYM RESOURCES
The weights in the chart for women over 60 seem on the conservative side to me, since I've already surpassed the chart weight (which is supposed to be a 1RM) for a geezer woman of my size at novice level on Deadlift, for a set of 5, after just 6 weeks of novice LP. Maybe the chart will make you feel better about the weights you can still lift, even while you are rehabbing.

I feel like it's not realistic to consider infinity the limit of my strength. But yeah, it's hard to decide what goal to set, and then what to do next after reaching that goal. There are so many variables. I hope you get it worked out in a way that satisfies you and keeps you injury-free in future.

Pretty interesting. Just a swift first pass......is about dead on for me, weight, sex(sometimes),age....at my relatively novice level.

BTW, in Delaware, one of the school districts just passed some type of policy ordinance that a child may designate, without parental participation or permission if the school authorities deem, their "identification" with race and gender...at will. This goes on the school records. I don't know how many times per unit time one can engage in swapping races and gender. If you do not believe this......and I know it's taxing.....you can probably find the Tucker Carlson interview (Fox) on youtube with the school official.

Thanks for the link.

[Jonathon Sullivan]

On you, your goals, your other physical activities, your genetics, your recovery time and resources. By the time you start asking yourself this question seriously, you should have the tools you need to answer it. And answering it is something only you can do.

[Mark E. Hurling]

Pretty much the same advice everyone else has given you, and it's good advice to use going forward.

But a slight twist on it. Strength for what? Applied to what? Do you want to compete in powerlifting or some other sport? If not, than perhaps where you are is where you wanna be. Other than increasing self-esteem, you seem fine where you are. If you want more, keep struggling with gravity and increasing the load. As far as health, who can say if you need to be stronger than you are. But it seems at your height, weight, and age that squat you achieved a good measure of strength to insure your future health. At least as long you work at keeping strong.

[Peter Egener]

As contemplate a big reset following 2x inguinal hernia repair, I don’t know how to think about my goals, and what do do when I hit them. I had an ambitious 2018 masterplan, which went to crap within the first two weeks of January due to a major injury, and am trying to wrap my head around the ramifications.

I totally get the mindset that you should always be moving forward, and that once you stop putting more weight on the bar you’ve given up. And I’ve had that mindset myself.

But realistically, as a 52 year old guy (5’11”, 215#) do I really need to squat more than 405? And if I keep adding the weight, isn’t there some theoretical inflection point where the risk of injury (and therefore a setback) outweighs the additional strength I could gain should everything go well?

(Obviously it would be different for everyone based on genes, age, history, and how much psychic benefit they gain from constantly hitting PRs).

So let’s say 405# squat is good enough - especially if I get to my arbitrary goal BW of 200-205. Then do I stick with maintenance on the squat and focus on a bodyweight press? And then maybe catching my DL up to my squat?

I can’t imagine ever having the mindset “I win at barbells, so I’m done”, but isn’t there a point where other physical goals could provide more benefit with less risk? And probably at some age, not going down will take more effort than going UP was in the past.

Or is this just all just self-defeating BS that is polluting my brain just due to being in a lot of pain, and disappointment at losing the first 1/4-1/3 of my training year?

BPJ,

You sound frustrated and disillusioned right now.
I injured a shoulder doing stupid stuff and then it has now taken me 5 months to get back to where I was just prior to injury.
It wasn't 5 wasted months though. I learned a lot about myself, my body and my mental fortitude was exercised and strengthened at the same time.
So you could say I am just as strong physically as I was before the injury, but also much stronger mentally. I don't see that at losing. Now I'm moving forward. Training has never been just in the physical dimension for me.

But at the end of the day, I really don't see a problem with hitting a strength level and then maintaining it.
My goal right now for the squat is to lift 405x5 and when I get there, I really don't know if I'll keep pushing up or just maintain two days a week and get into something else like more hiking or do some other thing when the kids might be into.
But I might also be thinking, Hmm 450 sounds cool. Who knows?

It all depends on why you lift. Your "why," when identified, will give you the answer to that. My initial why was to be strong into older age for the kids and grand kids. So maintenance sounds OK from that perspective.

But that is a question for later. The first thing to do is reset and start again one painful day at a time. Then your way will be clearer as you move forward.

Good luck and let us know how you are progressing.

Pete

[Nockian]

"Training has never been just in the physical dimension for me" :-) gold dust and an excellent introspective observation that escapes most people who look for a hedonistic emotional high from physical activity.

I would add that it has to be a rational activity, leading to self esteem and thus happiness, when performed consciously to a set of well chosen principles.

[Peter Egener]

"Training has never been just in the physical dimension for me" :-) gold dust and an excellent introspective observation that escapes most people who look for a hedonistic emotional high from physical activity.

I would add that it has to be a rational activity, leading to self esteem and thus happiness, when performed consciously to a set of well chosen principles.

Thumbs up to that.

Referring to your sensible advice above, what you said really does highlight the importance of your mindset and attitude as you age (in the 'extreme sport' of ageing).
I always thought life was tough. But it just gets tougher, so you either lay down and die or get tougher yourself and take it back up to the line for another round.
Time will always win, but there's nothing to be gained in going down easy.

Pete