my bodyweight demo isn't discussed in SS

[Jeff LC]

Mark - I have been reading and re-reading SS 3rd edition.

I notice you spend a lot of time talking about how the two different main demographics will progress during the initial months of the program. You talk about the 160-175 pound guys, who should be drinking GOMAD, and trying to gain weight fast as their lifts progress. You also talk about, of course, the extremely skinny.

But then you compare that to the really fat people, +20% body fat, and that those people will probably stay the same weight in the beginning, but will notice upper body getting wider and waist getting narrower. and then once their BF comes down, then they'll start regaining the weight, but in muscle.

You don't however, seem to cover the in-between.

I am 30 years old, 5 foot 11 inches, and weight about 185-190, 33 inch waist. depending on the day. I would say my body fat is definitely not above 20, but I'm also definitely not skinny. I have a very mildly muscular looking body, with a bit of fat for sure, based on all the tape measuring techniques it falls right around 18-19% on average. My lifts are currently low because i re-set, but i have achieved Squat 225 x 5, deadlift 305 x 3, and bench press 200 x 1. I also felt i could push more for sure on the dead lift and squat but just hadn't tried yet, because hadn't had coaching yet. (I have no, by Ryan Arnold in NYC, and am working back towards the higher numbers from scratch)

So, I'm not a total weakling, like the kind that would start the program with just the bar.

But.. I'm not sure whether i fall into the "fat" category, where i should be watching my diet, eating healthy, leaving out the GOMAD, maybe even watching excess carbs.. basically doing a "recomp", hovering around the same weight while getting stronger and getting a smaller waist?... Or if I, too, like the guys in the 160-175 pound range that you mention several times, should just be eating like a mad man and gaining tons of weight, and not worrying about it.

When presented with two extremes, my instinct would be to find the middle ground. So i would think, maybe i do set a diet where i am gaining weight, but very, very slowly? Or perhaps i should just keep doing what I'm doing which has me up just a few pounds in a month but lifts progressing linearly.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Hold on, do you honestly believe that someone with 21% bodyfat is "really fat"?

[TommyGun]

Jeff, way to read and reread SS 3rd Ed. In a way you are right that the caloric requirements for 185-ish trainee male trainee is not explicitly detailed. The point of all this is to get stronger, and you can get much much stronger based on your post. Often that requires gaining body weight in order to generate more force against the bar. I find the SS articles to be full of great information.
These two in particular may benefit you. The italics are excerpts from the article, the plain text is my comment about the articles. I highly recommend spending time on these two, there is a lot there to learn.

“Eating Through the Sticking Points”, Matt Reynolds, SSC, 2012
There are no hard gainers. If you are underweight or trying to add size, you need a plan. And you need to understand the relationship of body weight to strength. Matt’s article will lead you through it.

“

Maybe You Should GAIN Weight, Mark Rippetoe, 2017
An added bonus in the article is the before and after pictures of an SSC which is worth a thousand words. A theme of the article is that not all who go to the gym are there to lose weight. Many of us actually try to get stronger, and often that means gaining weight in order to get stronger:

“Many of us believe that a grown man weighs 200 pounds. He just does. Bigger and stronger is better than being underweight – for your health, your athletic performance in the vast majority of sports, and your longevity, as well as your appearance. I know that many of you will regard this perception as petty and superficial. You will say that intellectual pursuits are the true crowning glory of humanity, and that brutish size and strength belongs in the past, with animal skins, stone tools, and sloping foreheads.

If you say this, we will beat the hell out of you.

But more realistically, the typical human reaction to a well-behaved larger man is positive and respectful. More importantly, anyone who has gone through the process of gaining muscular bodyweight will attest to the benefits of having done so, completely aside from the difference in the way he is perceived by others.”

[Mark Rippetoe]

A Clarification | Mark Rippetoe

[Jeff LC]

No.. I don't think that... i was just referring to the demographics you covered in the book, and the higher demographic was 20+ % body fat. I'm about 20 and definitely not fat, but i do not fall into your skinny person category... I seem to be in the middle, so i was wondering what the weight gain plan would be for someone like me, in early months of the LP

[Mark Rippetoe]

Read the article.

[Jeff LC]

apologies for the lack of clarity. I was listing, not describing.

"fat people, AND +20% body fat,", in opposition to "skinny, 160-175" I know fat people have higher than 20%. and i also know skinny people can weigh much less than 160.

nevertheless, despite my lack of clarity, my question remains; what do you recommend for the poeple who fall flat in the middle of these two demographics. Should we aim to gain weight as fast as the skinny person does? Should we also Gomad?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Please read the article.

[Jeff LC]

A Clarification | Mark Rippetoe

Thanks - i did read it, I guess was looking for a more in depth discussion of someone who's sitting at, say, 19%, as opposed to the discussion in the article which focuses on the too skinny or too fat. Lot's of the examples are about fat people not getting stronger fast enough or skinny people not gaining weight fast enough, but since neither of those types of example apply to someone at who is already at the proper BF%, I wasn't sure how much weight i should expect to be gaining if i do the program correctly.

I know that the primary goal no matter what is for the lifts to keep going up, so far (in only 2 weeks of doing the program strictly, and two months of doing it prior to coaching, and not strictly), they have been.. I'm just not sure how much weight i should be aiming to gain at my current BF%

[Jeff LC]

well, I'm eating over 4,000 calories per day right now, I'm trying to make sure my lifts continue to go up at all costs.. i guess I'm just wonder, since my BF is at 19%, can i continue to gain weight, and do the program correctly, while still hovering between 15 and 20% body fat, or will i need to go up to 20+% in order to keep making the necessary strength gains each workout? Or, since I'm already near that 20 mark, will i be able to gain weight, and strenght, while maintaining the same body fat percentage?

The book seems to imply that once you get above 20% body fat, you are carrying around more than you need to be. And I am at 19% already, which seems to indicate that I should be gaining weight, and strength, but not enough to raise my body fat percentage. So essentially just gaining pure muscle?

I know these questions are going to piss of Rip, I'm just trying to get some clarification. Im literally willing to do literally ANYTHING that I am told by a SS coach, or Rip himself... so I'm just looking for someone to tell me lol.