I've heard varying advice about calorie needs. How much surplus are YOU getting?

[imak179]

I'm 21, 5'11" and 165lbs. I've heard from some that 400-600 above maintenance is enough (putting me at 3100-3300 calories), while others have said nothing less than 4000. What should I believe? Obviously, I want to minimize fat gains, but not at the expense of diminished muscle gains. I'm currently eating 3200-3400 a day. Of those, about 200 grams are protein (not all animal based.) My lifts are still light (just started SS a couple weeks ago), so I have no problems yet, but I don't want to end up stalling too early.

So the question is, how many calories did you get while doing SS? Please include your height and weight, or your maintenance level if you know it.

[Dastardly]

I would say 3500 is bare minimum for an active person engaged in sporting activities to merely recover/not burn out. There was words in the UK press about the RDA of 2500kcal (for sedentary men) being upped to 3000kcal. So if you think that an average sedentary man can intake 2500-3000kcal without getting fat, and then remind yourself that you are doing a considerable amount of strenuous activity that is hard on your body and that you actually want to not only prevent burning out, but progress in strength and grow muscle, strengthen connective tissues and bones. You have to realise that you need to be eating a lot more.

At 21/5'11"/165lb I think you have a lot of room for easy muscular growth and you would be silly to waste the opportunity/make things awkward by not taking it. You already have enough protein. calories come easy, just "DO THE EXPERIMENT". Go balls out in your consumption and see what happens, if you dont like it you can always change it up, but until you try you do not know.

[imak179]

I would say 3500 is bare minimum for an active person engaged in sporting activities to merely recover/not burn out. There was words in the UK press about the RDA of 2500kcal (for sedentary men) being upped to 3000kcal. So if you think that an average sedentary man can intake 2500-3000kcal without getting fat, and then remind yourself that you are doing a considerable amount of strenuous activity that is hard on your body and that you actually want to not only prevent burning out, but progress in strength and grow muscle, strengthen connective tissues and bones. You have to realise that you need to be eating a lot more.

At 21/5'11"/165lb I think you have a lot of room for easy muscular growth and you would be silly to waste the opportunity/make things awkward by not taking it. You already have enough protein. calories come easy, just "DO THE EXPERIMENT". Go balls out in your consumption and see what happens, if you dont like it you can always change it up, but until you try you do not know.

Getting the extra cals isn't the problem. I can easily fit in another 500 cals. I just wasn't sure how much I should be getting. So how much would you say I should get? 3500 or more? Keep in mind that besides SS and biking to campus, I'm pretty sedentary.

[DJC416]

Just keep going at that rate and when you stall, increase your calories and roll back slightly. Repeat until you can't afford to eat any more.

[forgeforth]

As a novice, you can probably get away with gaining around 4 pounds a month with great results. Then again, I would simply start lifting and progressing that way. Once you begin to stall, you can up the calories gradually. If you would like to minimize fat gains in general, weight gain above a daily surplus of 250-500 is unnecessary, especially as you progress past the novice stage. Hell, if a rank novice does everything correctly, it may be possible for him to gain 25 pounds of muscle in a year, but even that rarely happens. In reality, the vast majority of us are hard gainers when it comes to adding contractile tissue. Rapid weight gain will not make the muscles come in any faster, but it will make you much stronger in an absolute sense. That's where your goals come in. My goal is to be as strong as I can possible be, but not at the expense of unecessary fat gain and declining health. I fail to see the use of any rapid weight gain protocol outside of the severely malnurished. Then again, some will have you believe that we're all famished refugees and should be eating that way.

Just skim through the boards at all the diet threads about guys coming off a rapid weight gain protocol. As much as possible, don't approach this with any illusions. I think what you're doing is fine. If you notice that you're not gaining any weight, the solution is simple.

[imak179]

Once you begin to stall, you can up the calories gradually..

Makes sense. Should I stick with 3200 calories then? According to my calorie counting app, with my age, height and weight, lifestyle, and 3 SS sessions a week, my daily weight maintenance level is 2600 calories. With 3200-3400 cals a day, I'm already over the 500 calorie suggestion.

[forgeforth]

I don't think that's a problem. Tracking your intake is a great habit. You still have a lot of novice gains to accumulate and shooting a bit higher than 500 calories won't be a problem. Keep in mind in the future that, as you progress and gaining muscle becomes more difficult, a slight surplus is all that is needed to move forward without putting on unnecessary fat. Besides, if you notice that you are gaining anything you don't want to gain, cut back. It's that simple. You may not finish SS with a 350 pound squat, but you're well on your way. And if you want to eat huge to lift the most weight possible, there's nothing wrong with that, either. Just don't be under any false impressions.

*Edit, as for the original question, I'm 6' and 183. On days that I work and train, my body needs closer to ~4000 calories for maintenance. Keep in mind I walk up to 90 minutes a day, lift for 60-90 minutes and do conditioning work for about half an hour. I've consistently eaten at around 3800-4000 without gaining any weight. On days in which I don't train maintenance is much lower and closer to your number.

[veryhrm]

I would say 3500 is bare minimum for an active person engaged in sporting activities to merely recover/not burn out. There was words in the UK press about the RDA of 2500kcal (for sedentary men) being upped to 3000kcal. So if you think that an average sedentary man can intake 2500-3000kcal without getting fat, and then remind yourself that you are doing a considerable amount of strenuous activity that is hard on your body and that you actually want to not only prevent burning out, but progress in strength and grow muscle, strengthen connective tissues and bones. You have to realise that you need to be eating a lot more.

This mindset may have something to do w/ your difficulties in achieving the bf levels you've aimed at, don't you think ?

[Dastardly]

This mindset may have something to do w/ your difficulties in achieving the bf levels you've aimed at, don't you think ?

Well I dropped down to well south of 2000kcal when I was trying to lose weight. And I stand by the idea that you need a lot of calories when you are very active. If you have had a lifetime to adapt to low calorie/high activity like some indian peasant labourer then things are different. A Cyclist riding 100miles+ a day (normal for a tourer or racer) needs to intake 6000kcal for maintenance. A competitive swimmer like michael phelps takes in 12000 kcal for training.

If someone is doing some strength training 3 times a week, cycling, and some cardio or other casual sports. I would indeed suggest they need at least 3500kcal for recovery.

[elVarouza]

The optimal number of calories for a skinny novice on the SS program is whatever number allows you to gain a lot of weight and increase your lifts. If this is not happening you are not eating enough, regardless of whether or not you think you're "above maintenance".