Testosterone levels - PPST?

[Konstantinos Kavos]

Rip,

Sorry for asking a question which I know for certain has been addressed in one of your books. I think it was in PPST, and I can't find my bloody copy anywhere. It's not in SS or Strong Enough (I think).

My question is this: I remember reading that testosterone levels drop sharply the day/morning after a workout, and rise again after that. I ask because on a whim I went to have my levels tested last week. It was the day after a squats-press-deadlift workout. I have just received the results and I am not happy at all. Only total levels were tested, not free, and it was a terrifying 306 ng/dl (and I'm only 31! I'm an old man-woman already!).

I'm not having any of the problems that are supposed to come with low test levels, but from what I have read, that's no guarantee that all is well.

Needless to say I am going to eat more, work out harder, bother my wife more frequently, and get my levels re-tested in a month or so.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Test levels vary widely on a daily basis, as well as chronically with overtraining. One test is not terribly meaningful.

From Dr. Bradford:

A lab value is only good within the context of the lab standards.

Why is this guy terrified? There's a big range for "normal" even adjusted by age. Values vary with population, season, WHR and time of day. He's only looked at the total, not free levels and has no symptoms of problems. Free is the bioactive stuff, but everyone seems to forget that it's not just levels of it that vary, but responsiveness. Or, to put it another way, Ronnie Coleman is Ronnie Coleman, not just because of the training and drugs.

Besides, if it is low you can supplement. Lots of people try to find a way to make the test come out low so that they can GET the supplement through legal means.

[Charles Staley]

You could get on HRT no prob with that number

Rip,

Sorry for asking a question which I know for certain has been addressed in one of your books. I think it was in PPST, and I can't find my bloody copy anywhere. It's not in SS or Strong Enough (I think).

My question is this: I remember reading that testosterone levels drop sharply the day/morning after a workout, and rise again after that. I ask because on a whim I went to have my levels tested last week. It was the day after a squats-press-deadlift workout. I have just received the results and I am not happy at all. Only total levels were tested, not free, and it was a terrifying 306 ng/dl (and I'm only 31! I'm an old man-woman already!).

I'm not having any of the problems that are supposed to come with low test levels, but from what I have read, that's no guarantee that all is well.

Needless to say I am going to eat more, work out harder, bother my wife more frequently, and get my levels re-tested in a month or so.

[Konstantinos Kavos]

Mark, Dr. Bradford, Mr. Staley, thanks.

"Terrifying" was probably a bit of a strong word for me to use, but I was suprised, maybe shocked.

Last night I did a little research on some reputable sites (Mayo Clinic etc) and only managed to get myself even more worried. It is possible that I am having some symptoms of low testosterone, but on the other hand, those symptoms could just be down to the expected fatigue/stress from my work and personal life... blah blah blah ... at 03:30 in the morning I decided to stop.

I'm going to have another test in about a month, this time early in the morning, having eaten well, having just watched porn, possibly some road rage on the way there, and see what happens. Hopefully therapy won't be necessary just yet.

[Adam Wood]

I did this recently, too, and had a similar result of 347 on a reference range of 300-900. The doc said he'd prefer it to be between 500 and 600 and gave me two options:

1. The "natural" method: keep lifting, more sleep, drop sugars and refined carbs, more sex, and test again in six months.

2. The "supplemental" method: Human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) injections.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_c...c_gonadotropin (wfs)

He said he didn't recommend replacement therapy for someone my age (33), since it would suppress my natural testosterone production, effectively making me dependent on the replacements. He also said that hCG is illegal in my state, but despite that he uses it on himself and has a source in India. This led me to imagine a factory in Bangalore filled with pregnant women peeing into cups and placing them on conveyor belts for processing and shipment off to far away lands like America.

I told him I'd try the natural method. This was towards the end of my linear progression which had beat me down pretty badly, so that may have had something to do with it. I'm not really worried about it. I know I don't sleep enough and my diet hadn't been great going from 180 to 240, so there are definitely some things I can work on before resorting to injecting placenta goo into my veins.

[Konstantinos Kavos]

... so there are definitely some things I can work on before resorting to injecting placenta goo into my veins.

Fuck yes... at our age I think we have to exhaust all the alternatives before resorting to something like this.

I am going to report back in a month, in Ends & Pieces most likely, with the results of my lifestyle changes. One thing I will do is stop using the word "lifestyle", in itself inherently low-tetsosterone (makes you think of men's fashion magazines with a 2 inch health column in the back).

More sex, heavier weights, more hard rock, more food, more sleep...

[mohiz]

I'm 22 and my levels are lower than yours, about 255 ng/dl. I had several tests taken over a wide timespan and it was always close to the same. It's easy to play down the symptoms and attribute them to fatigue and stress, as you say. But it really makes a difference once the levels are bumped up to where they're supposed to be.

[Konstantinos Kavos]

I'm 22 and my levels are lower than yours, about 255 ng/dl. I had several tests taken over a wide timespan and it was always close to the same. It's easy to play down the symptoms and attribute them to fatigue and stress, as you say. But it really makes a difference once the levels are bumped up to where they're supposed to be.

Did you go on HRT or similar? Have you had any side effects?

Shall we move this over to Ends & Pieces now so that Rip doesn't have to use his little spare time read through our ramblings and approve them (or not)?

[fluxboy]

Hey,

Oddly enough, I did a post about this. It's a little offbeat and not for the faint of heart:

http://www.startingstrength.com/reso...t=15589&page=2

It is supported by a little ... er ... research.

And first hand experience.

(There might have even been a second in there)

Best,
Flux

[Konstantinos Kavos]

Oddly enough, I did a post about this. It's a little offbeat and not for the faint of heart:

I saw your advice in my search on this board for testosterone related posts, and I have already put it into action.

10 stiffies a days seems a little hard right now (pun intended), but I am working on it and definitely already feel a bit better

Good old Flux to the rescue again.

If only I had known about SS back in the days of the Fox.... My testosterone levels were probably high enough those days to get me banned from the Olympics.