Wichita falls novice program

[msingh]

I like WFNP but i'm wondering how to progress quicker on cleans and deadlifts. Is there any good way to do this? Ideally i'd like to deadlift and clean every week rather than twice a month as per program.

Or is it better to just do PP novice program and forget doing cleans altogether?

The only difference between WFNP and PPNP is alternating cleans and deadlifts on Wednesdays.

for program description please see http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wi...inner_Programs

I'm also interested in CFWF but i noticed it only involves benching and pressing once a week and the program calls for 5lb increases. I dont think i could pull off such large jumps on the program. Has anyone does CFWF?

[misspelledgeoff]

why wouldn't you do the original starting strength program until your deadlifts get heavy enough that you'd welcome only doing them twice per month? then switch to the wichita falls program?

sounds like you really want a program with chins/pullups. if that's the case then you'll just have to make a tradeoff. though I speculate powercleans will work the upper back just as well if not better than chins.

[msingh]

why wouldn't you do the original starting strength program until your deadlifts get heavy enough that you'd welcome only doing them twice per month? then switch to the wichita falls program?

I'm at the stage where I cant deadlift 6 times a month but i can still deadlift ok once a week, so the original SS isn't doing it for me. What's more i'm really really bored of it and would like more upper body work now that i've got a decent squat and deadlift.

sounds like you really want a program with chins/pullups. if that's the case then you'll just have to make a tradeoff. though I speculate powercleans will work the upper back just as well if not better than chins.

Exactly right, chins and pullups are very appealing. I never really had any soreness from doing cleans but I get it from doing heavy presses and benches every now and then. Which is to say cleans don't do much for me. I dont even get that rush of blood and dizziness i used to get at the start.

[Locutus]

Try a TMish way of doing it(note: this is more or less taken from one of KSC's templates):

Mon
Cleans 5-6 x 3

Wed
Chin-ups BW 3xF
or weighted 3x5

Fri
Deadlift 1x5

[msingh]

Loctus, I'll have a read of PP (2nd ed) to see how TM works tonight but I really like the idea of chins/pullups twice a week. If I added an extra day for metcon + powercleans (as they do in CFWF), would that be ok?

So something like:

Mon: Squat, Press/Bench, Pullups/Chins
Tues: Powerclean, Metcon
Wed: Squat, Bench/Press, Deadlifts
Friday: Squat, Press/Bench, Chins/Pullups

any criticism welcome.

[Locutus]

Loctus, I'll have a read of PP (2nd ed) to see how TM works tonight but I really like the idea of chins/pullups twice a week. If I added an extra day for metcon + powercleans (as they do in CFWF), would that be ok?

So something like:

Mon: Squat, Press/Bench, Pullups/Chins
Tues: Powerclean, Metcon
Wed: Squat, Bench/Press, Deadlifts
Friday: Squat, Press/Bench, Chins/Pullups

any criticism welcome.

That could work out, I'd consider switching the wed/fri chins and deads, though.

I might do something like this:
Mon: Squat, Press/Bench, Power Clean
Wed: Squat, Bench/Press, Pullups/Chins
Friday: Squat, Press/Bench, Deadlifts
Saturday: Chins/Pullups, Metcon.

You could even throw out the saturday chins if you choose a metcon that includes them (a sub 10 minute cindy?). Perhaps JLascek could weigh in.

[Sgsolberg]

Msingh, I would first suggest having your form checked. This is not meant as an indictment of your lifting, but ensuring that you are getting the best you can from your efforts.

If everything is good, then I would suggest something along the lines of what Locutus posted, but be careful with the extra metcon/pullups/chins. I think this would be a good place to start, but if your progress slows then the extra work would need to be dropped.

Additionally, Mark has older posts where he mentions that it could be possible that a person would need intermediate programming for the presses earlier than on the larger lifts.

[msingh]

Msingh, I would first suggest having your form checked. This is not meant as an indictment of your lifting, but ensuring that you are getting the best you can from your efforts.

I will get it checked out, thanks. Once i've got into the roll of things i'll arrange for a video recording of some of the lifts. I'm microloading the press and bench already so i'm not too worried about the pulls/chins negatively affecting those lifts.

The metcon is for improving conditioning which has gone badly from months of SS only and eating big. I've gained a lot of excess bodyfat which I don't want to add to any more, so if the metcon helps keep the fat in check, I'll be more than happy.

Locutus, I see that you've tried to organise it such that there is a normal lifting week with a day break between lifts and then the metcon day. This looks good. Unfortunately I dont want to do powercleans on any lifting day. They're too tasking, having to change the plates constantly and the 5 sets, I dont have the energy or motivation to do them on a normal lifting day. I hate powercleans i think. They might be more fun if i had bumpers and I was actually making good progress on them but that's not the case. Whereas on a seperate day, psychologically it's not so bad.

[Locutus]

They might be more fun if i had bumpers and I was actually making good progress on them but that's not the case. Whereas on a seperate day, psychologically it's not so bad.

I'd run it how you have it laid out, but with deads on friday (for some extra "rest" from the tues cleans). And be mindful of progress (or lack of it). How clean is your diet?

[msingh]

I'd run it how you have it laid out, but with deads on friday (for some extra "rest" from the tues cleans). And be mindful of progress (or lack of it). How clean is your diet?

Sounds good. Thanks. My diet is pretty dirty in that i'm not eating PALEO. I do avoid sugar, grains and breads. Drink quite a bit of milk -- not quite gomad, maybe 2/3 GOMAD. Half a dozen or so eggs a day. Don't eat much meat (just a lifestyle thing, we dont cook it often at home but I have it for lunch every day). A lot of my calories come from oils and fats in the form of 70s big shakes (as seen on the website). So there is room for improvement only thing is dropping calories affects recovery so it's not so easy to maintain progress on a restricted diet.

Progress on cleans stalled because they caused a shoulder injury. So I did a reset to work on form and to rehab. i've been working back on them but the drive isnt there to lift a weight i've already lifted a long time ago. I guess when they get heavier i'll get more out of them.