Shoulders!

[Brian M]

Ok guys, having some pain in my shoulders which doesn't make them feel healthy at all, im having a hard time trying to diagnose the problem. I am currently seeing a physiotherapist for a different reason, however, whenever i try to bring up about my shoulder issues, she doesn't want to know and gives a brief comment "it's posture related".

I don't feel it's posture related to the extremes im getting, Ive always been aware of good posture, and incorporate it as best as i can, im not one for slouching on chairs of rolling their shoulders forward, anyway, if i post the problems, im having, perhaps some of you guys can help give me some more guidance on where the problems are possibly stemming from.

The pain i get from my shoulders, to my knowledge are from:
Overhead Presses - Started a topic on this in technique, so won't go too much into detail, however the pain comes mostly from my shoulder blades and just overall joint aches are preventing me from making any progress in weight.
Dips - Similar scenario, my shoulders ache so bad afterward for around 5-10mins, not sure where the pain is from as im not that great at describing it, but mostly all over and seems more boney/joint related, and i would say it's mostly from the front of my shoulder/or collarbone.
General day to day activities - Using a hammer. Can't even seem to do this anymore, shoulders just feel so fatigued after a few repetitive hits, mostly at the front of my shoulders.
Skipping/Jump Rope - Used to love this as, but after just 2mins+ my shoulders just feel so fatigued and achey and it's really frustrating being limited on muscle aches rather than cardiovascular ability.
Running - Sometimes during runs i notice the front of my shoulders will ache and i'll sometimes build up a lot of tension in what i believe, my side delts.

Quite a list i have there, i know , She says i had a bit of forward head posture, although i don't feel i have it that much, certainly nothing abnormal to the majority of the population who have poor posture. Which is kinda why im puzzled to why so many activities are suffering. My neck has felt weak lately, and Ive been doing some exercises for my neck and cervical spine, mostly working against gravity and holding the movement, sort of like a static stretch, and they have been improving well, i have also bought a memory foam pillow to help support my spine at night.

I have also tried strengthening my rotator cuffs with external rotations, but that doesn't seem to be the problem, nor help, as sometimes the boney/joint aches come into play, similar to the jump rope pains.

My shoulders however, sometimes when i squeeze my shoulderblades, they'll pop. She says if it's posture related that i could be tensing all the time, yet when it comes to day to day activities, the muscles have already been working and are therefore fatigued easily.

Sorry for such large whining problems, but i hope anyone out there can share their opinion on the matter, as i am really puzzled.

Thanks in advance

[gregandbeaker]

I had (have) something similar with my right shoulder. After a lot of wasted time it was finally diagnosed correctly as a winged scapula. Its poked forward and out on the right side. Probably from a previous injury. So, anyway even when I assumed I was in correct posture and form, I really wasn't because the bone wasn't in the right place and I kept injuring it over and over again. Even hurt sometimes just walking the dogs. I ended up with a orthopedic rehab guy that specializes in shoulders and am now halfway through a protocol that is actually working. It consists of a ton of high rep low weight annoying little exercises everyday. The upside is that it is working and for the first time in a long time my bench and press are inching up again. No surgery required.

[ColoWayno]

What are your shoulder warmups like? You should be doing a good 10 minutes worth of quality stuff to get you warmed up before doing any lifting. Try that and a good massage once a week for a few weeks.
Make sure you nail your press form and reset the weight.

[Brian M]

I had (have) something similar with my right shoulder. After a lot of wasted time it was finally diagnosed correctly as a winged scapula. Its poked forward and out on the right side. Probably from a previous injury. So, anyway even when I assumed I was in correct posture and form, I really wasn't because the bone wasn't in the right place and I kept injuring it over and over again. Even hurt sometimes just walking the dogs. I ended up with a orthopedic rehab guy that specializes in shoulders and am now halfway through a protocol that is actually working. It consists of a ton of high rep low weight annoying little exercises everyday. The upside is that it is working and for the first time in a long time my bench and press are inching up again. No surgery required.

Yeah i happened to look up winged scapula on Exrx, the only relation i notice, is that my shoulder blades do flare out a little, which is what a winged scapula looks like, although it doesn't look as major as some of the pictures you'd find on the net. Perhaps a slight muscle imbalance, or it may be more than that, either way i guess i can only keep on at my physio until she tries to help me out, im hoping surgery isn't needed, Ive never injured the area before or anything like that so it's a tricky one. I also have a foam roller and have rolled that area, without noticing anything painful.

What are your shoulder warmups like? You should be doing a good 10 minutes worth of quality stuff to get you warmed up before doing any lifting. Try that and a good massage once a week for a few weeks.
Make sure you nail your press form and reset the weight.

Normally, as an example if i were to do pull ups or some dips, would be to warm my shoulders up just with my arms weight, similar to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7187Yqpq6I

But even some of the movements i hear a click in my left shoulder almost as if something is rubbing against bone, i also have done some shoulder dislocations with a broomstick to help increase mobility before workouts, along with skipping/jump rope, but i can barely do 5mins due to the aches and pains i get from it

I will try and improve my press form, but ive really tried all i can with a standard bar, although there's got to be a way i can make do for now, at least i hope.

[Brian M]

Thanks for the replies guys, and i am grateful, wouldn't mind hearing some more opinions however, as that would help give me some more guidance on what the problem is, surely they're all linked is what im guessing.

[jgh]

Do you pass this test?


I have been battling a messed up shoulder (the type that fails the test above) for nearly a year and a half now. It took me a year to realize my shoulder issues were posture related, after two cortisone shots and a ton of other shit. They have been gradually getting better since. It hurt to change the radio dial on my car, reach out to grab a drink (arm parallel to the floor), and I couldn't overhead press 20lb or bench the 45lb bar.

So all I'm saying is, it's possible her recommendation is correct and I really wish someone had told me that a year sooner in my struggle with this problem. I can't give you a silver bullet about what will fix it if you have the same problem, but I listed a bunch of the different things in my training log that I think have all contributed to the recovery.

[Brian M]

Thanks for the help and test jgh, i did that test, 10 repetitions each shoulder, and no real discomfort, so i guess im in the clear there. I think the thing with "posture" is that it's an easy, not excuse, but way to diagnose the problem without even taking a look at my shoulders, my posture isn't bad, definitely not, in comparison to most of the population and those that have noticeably hunched over shoulders, which is why i don't see why im affected as much as i currently am, i will ask her to take a look tomorrow, and hope she at least considers it this time, until then, im just going to have to keep searching.

Thanks again.

[jgh]

I can see how that would be frustrating. The professional I went to took the opposite approach but ended up feeling frustrated too: I went to a top sports medicine doc, he quickly did some range of motion tests, confidently said I had supraspinatus bursitis and then encouraged me to get a cortisone shot, saying that it would have no negative effects and only speed up my recovery. Sure, he may have helped my symptoms but he didn't look at the big picture (ie, posture) so I was screwed again within a couple of months (this happened twice).

That being said, I have no advice for you if you pass that test above and I can only leave you with Mike Boyle's tough-to-swallow theory on rehab: "If it hurts, don't do it."
http://www.performbetter.com/catalog...oyleDoesithurt

This is also very much worth watching, to gregandbeaker's point above:

[Brian M]

Thanks again jgh, i guess i'll mention it to her again today when i see her in a few hours time, i suppose it's not a major problem if it's posture related, which would explain the neck pain ive been having, but again, nothing abnormal, or that stands out, although with posture problems, i hear they can take a LONG time to correct

[Brian M]

Sorry if this seems like a double post, just saw the physio, so thought id update, she asked me to raise my arms above my head for about 10 repetitions and to the side, which caused some discomfort and fatigue, so she has given me an elastic band, have my shoulders back, elbows tucked into my sides and forearm 90 degrees to the floor, and rotate outwards until my shoulders are fatigued which is around 12-15reps, and to continue doing so. So pretty much similar to db external rotations which i were doing before, can only try it and see how it goes for the next 2 weeks :/