Squat form check

[bugbomb]

I said I'd be back here soon with 405, and here it is.



I'm especially curious because I think that I have some of the same issues that Coach Horn called out in this form check; namely divebombing into the bottom, excessive depth, and a bit too much knee movement during the reps.

http://startingstrength.com/resource...49115&p=896902

[Michael Wolf]

A good self-diagnosis. Do you know what to do to fix it?

[bugbomb]

The knee instability is a problem that only seems to crop up when wearing a heel. I have squatted barefoot and in flat shoes and the knee slide goes away but I'm less confident at depth.

I'm also just more comfortable with that little drop into the bottom - I feel like I get a better rebound.

My proposed fixes:
- I already had a pair of Rogue 1/2 do-wins ordered.
- Settle down before the lift and focus on tight abs (this will be a new cue for me). I think this may fix the drop/bounce.
- Find the cue that really keeps me in my hips longer. Coach Horn pointed out that I lift my chest a bit - it's always well after I'm through the sticking point, but it's probably blunting the training effect of the hip drive.

[Michael Wolf]

It sounds like you conceive of "the bounce" as a physical bounce of hamstrings off of calves, which also tends to involve the knees. That's not the rebound we're looking for. We want you to allow the structures to be loaded into a stretch (via knees out and setting their forward position earlier in the movement) and then when you get to that point - about an inch below parallel - drive your hips up hard. YOU have to make this happen, and then you'll take advantage of the stretch reflex - the bounce - that occurs when you do so in this position. It almost looks like you're using what I think of as the high bar squat bounce, which is not what we want to occur when doing a squat the way we do it.

The heels may help, but I think the primary thing here is to change your mental model and then physical expression of what the bounce is.

[bugbomb]

Yeah, I think you're exactly right. That's where I "feel" bottom. Maybe TUBOW is in order.

Would you suggest a reset on intensity day? This only really occurs at maximal weight when the weight is challenging and I feel like I need to be more reckless to get the reps. Volume day doesn't look like this.

[Michael Wolf]

I'd have to see your volume day squats to really comment on them. My experience has been that a very high % of people who "feel the bottom" where you do, do this on all their squats. So I'd definitely want to verify that either way before taking your word for it. Not because I don't believe you so much as because it's hard to objective about this sort of thing in our own training.

Hell, back two years ago I took a few week break from low bar squatting because I had developed some elbow tendinitis issues and needed a break to recover. I did high bar only for about 3 weeks, and I had been a high bar squatter exclusively for several years before switching to low bar. When I came back after that short 3 week break, I had already gotten back into the habit of "feeling the bottom" down where I used to feel it in the high bar position, and then this happened:


I was relying so much on the high bar type bounce that I actually got forward enough on the first rep that I had to step forward to save it. Fortunately I could do so at 375 no problem, but if that had been a heavy attempt, I'd have been screwed. Learn from my mistakes, young padawan.

So I suppose let's see some VD work, and in general, yes, I'd suggest a re-set down to the heaviest weight you can do with the correct form, depth, and bounce. This may be a small re-set, or a large one, but in the latter case, you can probably take fairly big jumps and come back quickly, so long as you remain a stickler for form whilst doing so.

[bugbomb]

Thanks for the in-depth response, Coach Wolf.

Here are my most recent volume day squats:



They actually look pretty good to me, if not 100% consistently so. Probably a very strong argument in favor of backing off the weight and, as you said, being a stickler on the way back up.

Just for another data point, here's my ID squats at 395x5. I actually let the weight get behind me - as opposed to out front - and had to... well, you'll see, it's an ugly recovery. Got the last rep, but I went deep into my comfort zone and dive-bombed the hell out of it.

[Michael Wolf]

Ya, the VD squats are better, but there's still a (smaller but present) tendency to get a little loose into the bottom and get into your knees a bit. This is exacerbated when you put more weight on the bar, but the signs are there with the medium weights of VD as well. Get a better "set" at the top, stay tight, and then rebound off the tightness of the structures just below parallel, as we discussed above. You got this, will just require a small amount of re-wiring what you feel as the natural motion.

[bugbomb]

Yessir. Now to see if the sleep-deprivation of a new baby hurts my squats as bad as it hurt my pressing yesterday...