Press 2.0 : Rack position versus off the shoulder

[Draco]

For the Press 2.0 (with hip thrust), wouldn't it be far more advantageous to have the bar resting directly on the shoulders in the rack position, even if the bar ends up a bit further up on the hand (almost on the fingers)? It seems like the force of the hip thrust would transfer the momentum directly to the bar that way.

My issue too is that if I try to keep the bar on my palms, right over my wrist, the bar ends up off the shoulders (the way everyone has it in the instructional videos). But this seems to wear me out with heavy weights, as there is no real "rest" between reps when I take a breath. My control also seems worse. But when I have the bar resting on my shoulders, it feels much more comfortable, but the bar is further back on my hand, almost on my fingers. Am I making too much of a compromise and robbing myself of power by doing this? Thanks.

[Steve Hill]

Well, if you want to make it easier, you could always just do singles off the pins....

In response the the on the shoulders / wrists question, I think that you would lose whatever benefit you're getting from the bar resting on the shoulders due to extension of the wrist with the bar far back in the hand. This creates a large moment arm between the bar and the wrist. And not everyone is blessed with short enough forearms to do it anyway.

[Draco]

Well, if you want to make it easier, you could always just do singles off the pins....

In response the the on the shoulders / wrists question, I think that you would lose whatever benefit you're getting from the bar resting on the shoulders due to flexion of the wrist with the bar far back in the hand. This creates a large moment arm between the bar and the wrist. And not everyone is blessed with short enough forearms to do it anyway.

Thanks. But since the Press 2.0 is clearly just the Olympic Press minus the second bow under the bar, isn't the bar supposed to preferably start in the rack position? Every weightlifter prior to 1972 had to clean the bar to their shoulders in competition, thus also pressing it up from the rack position. And in SS BBT2, Rip's instruction (and the pics clearly demonstrate) is a press from a rack position. So why is that now completely thrown away and considered "wrong?" I've been trying to maintain a rack position with wrists straight but it doesn't seem possible - is it? Just trying to make it work the way Rip, Bill Starr, and all the other greats have instructed for decades. Thanks again.

[Steve Hill]

Was there something unclear about this section of the press chapter?



The grip for the press has ALWAYS been explained the same way.

Also, you keep saying "straight wrists." I do not know where you have gotten the idea that wrists should be straight, or that we are saying that they should, but it is wrong. Perhaps a careful re-read is in order. Wrists are extended in the press. If the bar ends up sitting on the delts, so be it. But almost always it will not.

[osv2]

In response the the on the shoulders / wrists question, I think that you would lose whatever benefit you're getting from the bar resting on the shoulders due to flexion of the wrist with the bar far back in the hand. This creates a large moment arm between the bar and the wrist. And not everyone is blessed with short enough forearms to do it anyway.

I experimented with this a bit, and the idea is to get wrists straight as soon as the bar leaves your shoulders. It's a no-effort move as bar is almost weightless at this moment due to powerful hip thrust. It works, at least for me. I mean I don't press that much, but I can press slightly more this way.

In addition to better transfer of force from hips to the bar, one can relax a little bit between reps.

Overall, I don't see any drawbacks of such technique.

[Steve Hill]

What do you mean by "get the wrists straight?" At no point during a press are the wrists NOT in some degree of extension, because otherwise the entire weight of the bar would be being carried by the thumbs.

As far as making it easier, sure, if the bar is on the delts, this is a firmer surface than being held above them in the hands, and thus more force will transfer. Congratulations, you won the genetic lottery. Not everyone is as lucky. Does this mean that everyone should try to get the bar in a position on the shoulders? No, because other compromises would have to be made that would affect the lift.

[Seth_H]

What do you mean by "get the wrists straight?" At no point during a press are the wrists NOT in some degree of flexion, because otherwise the entire weight of the bar would be being carried by the thumbs.

Not trying to be nit-picky, but this is the second mention of wrist flexion. Am I missing something, or do you mean extension?

[Steve Hill]

You are correct, and I've edited my posts accordingly. Thanks!

[osv2]

What do you mean by "get the wrists straight?" At no point during a press are the wrists NOT in some degree of extension, because otherwise the entire weight of the bar would be being carried by the thumbs.

By "straight" here I meant what in SS:BBT is described as: "The grip should position the bones of the forearm directly under the bar". There is no way I can get the bar on my chest/delts with this grip. I need more extension at wrists.

As far as making it easier, sure, if the bar is on the delts, this is a firmer surface than being held above them in the hands, and thus more force will transfer. Congratulations, you won the genetic lottery. Not everyone is as lucky.

Genetic lottery is not applicable, as I can't touch delts when wrists are set as described in SS:BBT. I suspect it's indeed very rare somebody can do it with SS:BBT-suggested grip.

Does this mean that everyone should try to get the bar in a position on the shoulders? No, because other compromises would have to be made that would affect the lift.

The suggested compromise is more bending of wrists to get the bar to the shoulders, then straightening wrists to the SS:BBT suggested position right after the bar leaves shoulders, so the press itself occurs with exact SS:BBT suggested mechanics.

And the question is: do you SS coaches see any drawbacks of using this technique?

Notice also that it made no sense to do this with Press 1.0, as only Press 2.0 noticeably benefits from starting from delts.

[Steve Hill]

By "straight" here I meant what in SS:BBT is described as: "The grip should position the bones of the forearm directly under the bar". There is no way I can get the bar on my chest/delts with this grip. I need more extension at wrists.



Genetic lottery is not applicable, as I can't touch delts when wrists are set as described in SS:BBT. I suspect it's indeed very rare somebody can do it with SS:BBT-suggested grip.

Maybe make your delts bigger by, I don't know, pressing correctly?

The suggested compromise is more bending of wrists to get the bar to the shoulders, then straightening wrists to the SS:BBT suggested position right after the bar leaves shoulders, so the press itself occurs with exact SS:BBT suggested mechanics.

And the question is: do you SS coaches see any drawbacks of using this technique?

Notice also that it made no sense to do this with Press 1.0, as only Press 2.0 noticeably benefits from starting from delts.

The suggested compromise is a compromise. As I pointed out initially. My same comments hold. We'll leave aside the discussion of the advisability of changing your grip in the middle of executing a lift.