New Article: Women and Barbell Training

[Mark Rippetoe]

Starting Strength Coach Fran Mason shares her experiences with introducing women to the potential of barbell training:

http://startingstrength.com/index.ph...t_novice_women

[bluebutton]

I appreciate this article, particularly the notion of working with women at whatever starting point they have with the barbell.

And the thoughts on getting bulky were also helpful.

For me when I started, I worried about that stuff but saw a lady across the gym crossfitting who was significantly stronger than I and thought, "Well, she still looks like a lady, so I can probably start working on it." Then when I got to deadlifting more than bodyweight I shifted to thinking, "I don't really care what I look like at the moment, I can lift more than I weigh!"

I'd be interested in hearing any thoughts on how to coach women in the eating part of lifting.

[Gina]

I'd be interested in hearing any thoughts on how to coach women in the eating part of lifting.

I'm currently intrigued by this aspect (although I'm a currently-working-my-way-up-to-lifting newbie).

Back in July, I had a body composition evaluation (Bod Pod or ADP) and was horrified to learn that although I weigh 127lbs (BMI of <22 for what that's worth), I have a body fat of 42%. (I should mention that my rehab trainer thought it would be around 25% and online calculators estimated 23%.) Ghastly tho' 42% body fat is, I was more perturbed by the wretchedly low level of lean body mass that I have. (I had to read through a fair number of papers before I could find enough absolute rather than relative data to establish that, as I thought, I'm about 23-26lbs down on what the average LBM of a woman my age/height/frame is, and therefore substantially less than would be optimal.)

Since then, I've been reading that the standard advice is that people need to shed body fat down to a reasonable level before concentrating on building muscle or LBM, however, I have so little, I'm not sure that that is useful advice. I think this is possibly a fairly common issue for women in particular age groups* and I don't know how feasible it is to encourage women to eat appropriately to support muscle building/repair if it's going to worsen an already abysmal body fat percentage.

*I'm basing this on an interesting study: Measuring Adiposity in Patients: The Utility of Body Mass Index (BMI), Percent Body Fat, and Leptin

[Mark Rippetoe]

The BodPod is usually wrong, and the advice to lose bodyfat before you start training is ALWAYS wrong. When you hear stupid shit like this, ALWAYS ask: why?

[Gina]

the advice to lose bodyfat before you start training is ALWAYS wrong. When you hear stupid shit like this, ALWAYS ask: why?

The answer that I got (because I did ask) was that I'm in the 'risky' category at that level of body fat for metabolic syndrome, cardiovascular disease etc. etc. It was automatically assumed that because I look fairly slender, that indicated that I'm a TOFI (Thin Outside, Fat Inside - a category named by Jimmy Bell's research team when they published their body volume studies a few years ago).

TOFIs are said to have abnormal amounts of visceral fat* which is a high risk for [insert the public health bogeymen] diseases. This seems to be behind the advice that people are instructed to reduce their visceral fat specifically, as well as their overall body fat percentage (no, the evidence base for that advice isn't complete, nor is a complete understanding of how to reduce visceral fat beyond the standard 'eat less, move more' mantra).

My particular difficulty with this advice is that if I managed to lose only body fat and no LBM at all (ignoring the practicalities of that), I'd need to weigh 100lbs in order to bring myself down to 25% body fat (the acceptable range of body fat that would take me into the 'underweight' BMI for my height). Judging by the data in the paper above (and some others), my situation is not that uncommon and there may well be a substantial group of women who need to develop their strength in order to reduce to avoid the degradation of their muscle or bone mass when older but they're being advised to diet away their body fat.

There's a huge amount of research money in sarcopenia at present as it's another area for concern because of frailty-associated health care costs. However, it doesn't seem as if there's an international consensus on a definition of sarcopenia and that's possibly reflected in the unhelpful advice that's being given at present (particularly to women who are more affected by it).

*I don't have the waist measurement of someone in the 'high risk' zone for metabolic or other diseases. However, in the terms of the paper that I linked above, I'm categorised as 'morbidly obese' at that level of body fat.

[Fran Mason]

I'm glad people are liking the article. Thanks for reading it. My nutritional advice is to first get off of sugar and all those fake sweeteners, diet soda, etc. Then I want people to get off grains and legumes and eat quality protein and fat. I tell them to live on meats and produce. The health aspects (proteins that are bad for your gut, etc) are explained in Loren Cordain's Paleo Diet books, but just as important, if people can give up grains, they are giving up junky, starchy, sugary carbs. They need to replace these calories with high quality good-sized meals.

It is sooo much harder to get trainees to change their diet than to start lifting. And some people try it for too short a time, or they have other problems I'm not able to figure out, such as thyroid, pituitary, who knows what else. I'd like to be a stronger leader for my trainees in the nutrition area. At some point I lose confidence and have to butt out.

[Mark Rippetoe]

The answer that I got (because I did ask) was that I'm in the 'risky' category at that level of body fat for metabolic syndrome, cardiovascular disease etc. etc. It was automatically assumed that because I look fairly slender, that indicated that I'm a TOFI (Thin Outside, Fat Inside - a category named by Jimmy Bell's research team when they published their body volume studies a few years ago).

Once again, the bodpod is usually wrong. Get a qualified operator to do a 7-site skinfold analysis and let's see what really going on here. You have already noted the problems with the advice to lose bodyfat first. I'll ask the additional question: what causes the problem, the presence of bodyfat or the absence of muscle?

[Adam Lauritzen]

Great article! It's nice to have a specific resource for this demographic. I think that I have a better appreciation for the individual's concerns and how to approach them a little better. I think this population stands to benefit greatly from strength training and seldom looks at it as an option; due to the misconceptions stated in the article, but as Fran has demonstrated, that can be changed.

I have a few clients in their 50s and 60s, most of them started with a light version of crossfit for general physical activity and health. Their performance and progress predictably plateaued in short order after which, I recommended strength training and Sully's lecture from last year's SSCA Conference. They came back the next day and were sold (thanks to Sully in my opinion). One 55 year old lady started at 140 pounds at a height of 5'10" and squatting a youth bar well above parallel, now she is ten pounds heavier and squats 110 pounds for triples. She was very excited to tell me that she can finally see the muscles in her legs. Things like that and a log booklet them know they are making progress and keep them motivated to continue.

I also enjoy working with this group. They are generally easy to coach, as far as having no preconceived notions from what their high school weights coach said.

Thanks for this.

[melody]

I'm glad people are liking the article. Thanks for reading it. My nutritional advice is to first get off of sugar and all those fake sweeteners, diet soda, etc. Then I want people to get off grains and legumes and eat quality protein and fat. I tell them to live on meats and produce. The health aspects (proteins that are bad for your gut, etc) are explained in Loren Cordain's Paleo Diet books, but just as important, if people can give up grains, they are giving up junky, starchy, sugary carbs. They need to replace these calories with high quality good-sized meals.

It is sooo much harder to get trainees to change their diet than to start lifting. And some people try it for too short a time, or they have other problems I'm not able to figure out, such as thyroid, pituitary, who knows what else. I'd like to be a stronger leader for my trainees in the nutrition area. At some point I lose confidence and have to butt out.

You haven't found women to have hormonal issues on a strict paleo diet? My friends and I all have after a year or three. Especially with higher fat and lower carbs.

[Gunnhild Bruno]

I'm actually very appreciative of the fact that the section on "getting bulky" showed such restraint. It's at the point where every time I see another "getting bulky" article, I roll my eyes because

1. it's a full-blown cliché at this point that has already been exhaustively dealt with by almost every strength training guru (with most managing to be incorrect and/or dishonest about it), and
2. the "lifting won't make you bulky, ladies!" article is inevitably one that tries to sell women on lifting by selling them on aesthetics instead of strength.

I'm not saying aesthetics are an invalid concern or anything, nor am I saying that lifting for aesthetics is somehow bad. It's just that we're concerned with strength here, and I like that the article deals primarily with issues of gendered expectations when it comes to strength and performance.

Nice article, Fran.