should you shrug during shoulder dislocations?

[spacediver]

Hi Mark, I posted this in the technique forum but got no replies. I'm curious about what you think:

In an attempt to learn the overhead press and deal with shoulder flexibility issues, I've recently introducing shoulder dislocations with a resistance band.

I've also been learning about why it's important to engage the traps at the top of the press - to provide a stabilizing force upon the scapulae, which are experiencing considerable gravitational load, and to rotate the scapulae into a position where they can more healthily articulate with the humeral heads.

Given this information (in particular the healthy articulation part), it seems reasonable to encourage a shrugging motion as an integral part of shoulder dislocations. However, I've not been able to find any such recommendation when looking up instructions on shoulder dislocations.

So, should a shrug be encouraged during shoulder dislocations?

[Mark Rippetoe]

How would a scapular elevation affect the stretch position in a "dislocation" stretch? I don't see how thw shrug with the arms at 90 degrees of adduction -- the hard part of the stretch -- changes the glenohumeral angle.

[spacediver]

By dislocation stretch, I'm referring to those movements where you typically hold a broom or long wooden stick in both hands and rotate your arms so that the broom starts out in front of you and ends up behind you. For me, 180 degrees is the hardest part (when arms are directly overhead).

Perhaps I've used the wrong name for the stretch?

[spacediver]

ah, I see what you mean. Arms are not overhead during dislocations - duh. Ignore my previous post.

If I may, I've a related question. If the traps are only engaged towards the end of the press, then doesn't that mean that for the bulk of the movement, the glenohumeral angle is in an unfavourable position? Yes, the weight is moving upwards, but there is still a gravitational force acting upon the joint during the rise of the weight.

[dun08032863]

Can your perform such dislocations after your shoulder surgery rip?

I have always found them difficult myself.

[Mark Rippetoe]

By dislocation stretch, I'm referring to those movements where you typically hold a broom or long wooden stick in both hands and rotate your arms so that the broom starts out in front of you and ends up behind you. For me, 180 degrees is the hardest part (when arms are directly overhead).

Perhaps I've used the wrong name for the stretch?

Perhaps you've done them wrong, because the hardest part of the stretch occurs where the pecs receive the full stretch, directly behind or a little above the shoulder joint. For most people.

ah, I see what you mean. Arms are not overhead during dislocations - duh. Ignore my previous post.

Okay.

If I may, I've a related question. If the traps are only engaged towards the end of the press, then doesn't that mean that for the bulk of the movement, the glenohumeral angle is in an unfavourable position? Yes, the weight is moving upwards, but there is still a gravitational force acting upon the joint during the rise of the weight.

Can I ignore this one too?

[spacediver]

Can I ignore this one too?

If you must.

I am still a bit confused, though. I've read both the overhead pressing crossfit article, and the relevant portion of SSBBT 3, and the same question occurred to me while reading each.

In the crossfit article ( http://www.crossfit.com/journal/libr...ad_Lifting.pdf ) , my understanding is that the spatial configuration of the joint in fig. 3d occurs whether or not you shrug. The only difference is that when you shrug, the position evolves to that depicted in 3e.

So how come impingement doesn't occur right before you shrug? Is it because the position (3d) exists only for a brief moment in time?

[Mark Rippetoe]

The shrug is not a separate movement. Traps are engaged the entire drive up.

[spacediver]

Thanks, that clears it up nicely for me. Your patience is also appreciated.