Sumo clean

[Tobias]

Found this old video by accident:

http://vimeo.com/7091163

If you skip to 0:20, and 2:20 you can see an American lifter, Dave Ashman, doing a sumo clean and press. I've looked at other old footage around this era and found a few other lifters using sumo stance too.

Why have lifters stopped using sumo cleans if sumo stance makes the pull easier? I've looked through the IWF rules and regulations and found nothing on sumo stance. For those that choose to sumo deadlift for whatever reason, can sumo power cleans be an alternative?

[Mark Rippetoe]

The sumo stance doesn't make the pull easier. It may make the start position easier, but it compromises the acceleration mechanics of the pull itself.

Why? SSCs?

[Michael Wolf]

I should have just gone right to sleep when I got home, but of course I had to check in here and saw this thread.

Why does the sumo stance compromise the acceleration mechanics of the pull itself? As usual, Lord of the Rings is the key to understanding all important things:

[John Watson]

The sumo stance doesn't make the pull easier. It may make the start position easier, but it compromises the acceleration mechanics of the pull itself.

Why? SSCs?

The wide leg position makes legs effectively shorter, thus a more vertical back position at the start of the lift.
Much of the acceleration occurs in extending the hips -shoving them forwards, and using the hamstrings (and glutes) to swing the rigid back vertical like a medieval catapult, after the bar passes the knees.
If the back is already more vertical, and hips already more extended, some acceleration capability is compromised.

[John Watson]

I swear I posted my reply before seeing Michael Wolf's video.

[Mark E. Hurling]

As usual, Lord of the Rings is the key to understanding all important things

Once more and again, into the West and the Grey Havens Ye Eldron go.

[lewabbit]

I should have just gone right to sleep when I got home, but of course I had to check in here and saw this thread.

Why does the sumo stance compromise the acceleration mechanics of the pull itself? As usual, Lord of the Rings is the key to understanding all important things:

I would posit that the quads are jot in optimum position for acceleration in a sumo pull. Additionally, would there be a force leak, considering the path of force production is not in a completely straight line, as would be in a conventional pull?

[Jonathon Sullivan]

The Bear Orc nails it. You can't get much power from a more vertical trebuchet.

The video is interesting for the cleans. They were really "clean" back then. And check out the split snatch at 1:38.

[tertius]

...Wolf, I'm not sure what kettlebell swings have to do with sumo cleans.

[Kundahli]

I'm not sure I'm following your elvish, Wolf. Are you suggesting that a trebuchet with the longest moment arm creates the greatest acceleration? The more vertical back angle in the sumo hobbit clean effectively reduces the moment arm from hips to shoulders (effective bar attachment) thereby reducing the acceleration produced at any given force imparted on the bar compared to the conventional orc clean?

If so, I understand you.