Bmi

[Gottatri2lift]

TO ALL -

BACKROUND: I am in the Navy and am on shore duty finally! Have been doing SS for 8 weeks and doing great and won't stop for anything. The Navy has instituted a PHA (physical health assessment) where a Navy doctor reveiws your medical record and talks about "wellness". BMI always comes up.

ISSUE: BMI and the load of stupid that it is. Now the doctor will recommend LSD and tell me that becuase I am 5'10" I should weigh no more then ~195 pounds. I am 5'10" and weigh 225. I am still moving up on the novice program and GOMAD (SQ -400 1RM, B -310 1RM, DL 345 working set, OP -140 working set, PC -150 working set & swim 400M in under 9 minutes)

WANT: Some retorts and studies that explain that BMI is silly, wrong, & broad brush strokes for a vast population of fatties.

Thanks!

[Mark Rippetoe]

Ask him for a bodyfat assessment. This provides precisely the evidence you need that BMI is bullshit. But wait -- trying to change the policy of the Navy is exactly as stupid as the use of the BMI. This presents a problem, and you're really at the mercy of the doc. Bring him a present, I suppose.

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

I lost about 30 lbs of bodyweight while in USMC bootcamp because the bastards put me on half rations because I didn't fit into the "height/weight" chart.

I could do less pull ups by the end of bootcamp at 165 lbs than I could at 195 lbs when I came into bootcamp. But...at least I fit into the height/weight chart.....and I think my 3 mile run time improved by about a minute.

[Spud]

frag him, put him in a washdeck locker and dump him at sea!

OR show him the book and Rip's forum but the navy is the navy and shit rolls down hill, but you just may change his attitude but will he move up the chain of command

good luck cheers Spud

PS what are they doing with the guys at sea who can't do LSD ?

[OITW]

Hey sea lawyer, I've already gone into this in detail with Rip. Give the PHA questionnaire the answers it wants. Hell, I gave it the answers it didn't want, and I still skated by without having to do anything more than read some recommendations for healthy eating and exercise. Shut up, smile, and initial where they tell you to.

The ONLY thing that matters to you as a sailor hopelessly above the weight cutoff is the magic neck to waist ratio. Find your CFL, and ask him what your ratio is. Ask him for a courtesy taping while you're at it. At 74" tall and being old, my ratio is 23". I guarantee you that yours is a lot less, but it's the only thing that matters prior to actually doing your PRT. THE ONLY THING, not arguing with the doc.

And if you weren't aware, after this PRT cycle the Navy goes to no-notice weigh-ins and short-notice PRTs, so the growth plan often talked about here, get big first and then lose the excess fat with Paleo/Zone/whatever, can potentially get you thrown into the fat-boy program or out of the Navy.

The only thing that will keep you out of trouble is that neck to waist ratio. Everything else is a waste of time, yours and everybody else's.

[scotts]

If your cholesterol is good, body fat is in line, blood pressure is normal, and you are able to meet whatever aerobic requirements the navy may invent, can they really use your BMI against you? Anyone who squats 400 is going to have a higher BMI than your averaged untrained healthy guy, and I doubt too many doctors are unable to grasp this concept. But if a doctor is really that ignorant, I'm not sure that you're going to be able to change his mind with internet research.

I think you'll find it pretty easy to argue BMI, but it's harder to dispute with a doctor who says that your gut is too big. I'd be more worried about my belt size than my BMI.

[Gottatri2lift]

The Navy method of bodyfat assessment is to measure the circumference of your neck and subtract it from the circumference measurement of your waist one inch above your hip bone. Whatever the final number is your bodyfat percentage. I have to do that twice a year for the Physical Readiness Test (PRT), it seems to be a grossly inaccurate.

I think I will bring the doctor the 2nd edition of SS after he yells at me for doing "deep" squats!

[tmatt]

Don't they also tape you? I know in the Army, if you were above the recomended weight for your age and height, you would get taped. Basically, they take your neck and stomache measurments, look it up in their little chart, and determine if your body fat meets the standard. Not exactly accurate and subject to variation depending on who does the taping, but it's better than BMI. I was always over the weight limits for my height but made the tape test.

Oh and BMI = Body Mass Index and that's exactly what you're doing, adding Mass. Isn't that what we are all after? Unfortunatly, Mass doesn't designate muscle or fat and the assumption is that extra Mass is fat. I'm sure the doc will understand this but it doesn't matter, all that matters is the numbers in the government published chart (love that Free Military Health Care!).

You could always grab the doc, clean him and press him overhead, then squat him a few times. Maybe that will convince him...

[Dennisi01]

Find out what kind of beer he likes, and bring him a case. Better yet, make it 2.

Or you can pick him up and press him over your head to prove to him how ridiculous BMI is, but that may end up being counterproductive to your cause, although would make for a great story.

[thaOrleanyte]

Unfortunatly, if you have a skinny neck, ur f**ked. The navy (and marine corps, for that matter) measure body fat by taking measurements of you neck and waist ratio. Rougly W-N=R. R is then used in a diagram by height. My bf determined by USMC is 17% with W=35.5in and N=17in. Im am realisticly about 13% BF. It is a broken system......