Strength training on maintainance or caloric deficit

[AliP]

Hey, a little about myself, I weigh -100kg, have been doing SS.3x5 for about 6-9 months, with amazing results, I ate a lot and gained around 25kg bw without getting noticeably fatter or slimmer, my guess is that I'm around 15%bf. My Squat went from 40kg to 140kg 5RM, I maxed my dead at 200kg in a national powerlifting competition a while ago, and my bench is at 100kg from 40kg 1RM. I also recently switched over to Bill Starr 5x5 Madcow from SS5x5. The reason I am posting here is that I prefer not to gain any more weight, not only because the -100kg sub junior powerlifting class is what I prefer to compete in but also I fear that any more weight gain will result in me not being able to fit into my car anymore. Does anyone have any advice for me? I'm used to getting heavy gains due to eating a shitload of food, how do professional weightlifters/powerlifters in the sub125+ classes keep their weight in check while still gaining strength? What can I expect doing Madcow on a calorie deficit or maintainance diet? Thanks.

[BruteForce]

cut carbs off around 6 at the latest, switch to healthy fats for your energy sources at that point, and throw in cardio 5 days a week. continue your diet the same way, just cutoff carbs. That should do the trick.

[Dastardly]

I think AliP was concerned about how to continue building strength with less calorie consumption.

The calorie reduction/eating less is obvious.

In my opinion bill starr/madcow 5x5 is volume heavy, energy demanding and geared towards mass gain. Simply going from 3x5 to 5x5 is adding a whole lot of volume and asking body to grow.

But then you have stuff like the power shrugs/pulls which are very specific mass builders of the upper back.

Does your version also include the curls & tricep extensions too? Even more stuff for mass gain.

If you are concerned about adding mass I would choose a less volume heavy programme. Maybe something like Jim Wendlers 5/3/1 or Korte 3x3 (I do not actually know much about these)

It would work better than attempting something like the 5x5 beginner programmes which are designed to pack on heaps of muscle onto new lifters ideally with the aid of GOMAD or other profuse calorie consumption.

Bear in mind however, if you are still making linear progress with beginners 5x5 or 3x5 programmes why not continue eating big to let your body grow how much it wants to?

[AliP]

I think AliP was concerned about how to continue building strength with less calorie consumption.

Exactly.

The switch from SS to Madcow was actually a reduction in volume, since most of the Madcow sets (eg. 4/5 on monday) are actually what I used to consider warmup while I was doing SS (i ramped up to doing 3x5 heavy), so in effect I just dropped two of the three heavy sets in SS and switched to weekly linear progress in addtition to a little mixup with the programming. The only real additions to the program are the assistance exercises. My version includes OHP and power cleans instead of Incline and rows and I also cut a few sets of warmup on powercleans. I don't mind more muscle mass I'd just prefer to keep my bodyweight under 100kg for various reasons, the primary one being that that is the powerlifting class I'd like to compete in.

If I kept eating a lot I have little doubt I'd eventually reach a 300kg dead at 125kg+bw and eventually I'd become a "true bearmode" powerlifter, but that has professional and social implications I'd prefer to avoid, at least for now while I am still so young.

I'm asking for help regarding how to continue building strength with a lowered calorie consumption or at least how to do it without gaining too much weight.

If I throw in more cardio could I keep eating big without getting too heavy and still gain strength? Thanks.

Edit: I'd also like to point out that I believe that I am at around 15-20%bf, this obviously increases my relative weight and If converting that weight to muscle mass is possible I'd be very interested in learning the most effective way of doing that.

[BruteForce]

The reason I went straight to diet is because you were talking about gaining strength while in a deficit. My point is that you dont have to go into a deficit to maintain or lose weight. If you introduced some low intensity cardio and kept your diet the same, only cutting carbs off, you would still be able to build strength and drop some bf.

[PMDL]

Eat less food. If you start to burn out, cut your volume back and think twice about any maximum efforts or sets-to-failure.

There's not much more to it than that.

[Flying Fox]

In my opinion bill starr/madcow 5x5 is volume heavy, energy demanding and geared towards mass gain. Simply going from 3x5 to 5x5 is adding a whole lot of volume and asking body to grow.

Actually, Bill Starr 5x5 only has 1 work set, not 5. 3 worksets a week per movement is not exactly high volume.

[Dastardly]

Im not that clued up on the details, sorry.

Im doing stronglifts 5x5 which is based on madcow, but it has the same weight across 5 sets and uses a pure linear progression.

I thought the beginner Bill Starr programmes were similar.

I still think it is better to fuel yourself properly while training. Use this time when you are young/still have beginner linear gains to make even if it puts size on you.

Like you said, you have 15-20% Bodyfat, so you can cut a good deal of weight for competition.

I would keep eating unless the eating actually became a challenge in itself.

[PMDL]

I'm amazed at how many ways the Internet has managed to Brand Name(TM) a fluid programming methodology into Programs for Sale (TM)

[Tom Campitelli]

throw in cardio 5 days a week.

This is probably not the way to go. Cutting your calories, maintaining high intensity on the lifts, and adding in "cardio" for five days seems like a great way to regress on your lifts. If you want conditioning, consider one or maybe two short metcon workouts in a week. If you just want to stay the same weight, you will still need to eat for recovery. Only you will be able to figure out how much that is. Try cutting back on the milk first, but realize that your strength gains will almost certainly be slower than when you are eating lots of food.