Question on Going to Mixed Grip for Deadlift

[David McClelland]

My last deadlift I PRed at 290 for 5 reps and for the first time I had to use wrist straps. I used them because I'm at really heavy weight now (heavy for me, ok?) and am being very cautious about using mixed grip for the first time with such heavy weights. I really did not expect to get to this point before I had to switch at all as I used to have a weak grip on every other program I've ever used.

Anyway, being cautious is something I've learned at 46 yrs old and having had lots of elbow/shoulder trouble and one major injury with my right forearm tendons. Back in the day when I didn't know any better I was doing bent over rows (wrong, of course) and decided to switch to a machine for it. I was even cautious enough to lower the weight to what I felt like would get me used to the new movement until I could go back up again. Well I really tore up my whole forearm (I am not exaggerating) and I won't even go into all that detail but suffice it to say I'm very, very wary of changing up exercises/grips at heavy weights.

I do not want to rely on straps for DL and want to use mixed grip, but realize this changes the way things are going to pull on my arm.

Do I start with warm ups using mixed grip and see how it goes? Is there a chance the work set after that is going to tear something up anyway? I warm up the way SS teaches and last warm up set is close to working set, though work set obviously feels quite heavy. I've had not the first problem with injury during these months of SS and I have strengthened everything that was troubled and injured in the past. THANK YOU RIP!!!

I've also read people saying to use DOH until work set and then switch to mixed grip. I have no problem with that as long as I'm not going to get any surprises on that work set. I'm also going to be alternating arms every other DL if that's the smart thing to do.

Sorry I was so long winded about this question. It's probably very silly to some, but it's important to be safe with my forearms.

[dayvoh]

Hi David,
were you working with double overhand or hook grip? You should train the hook grip before going to mixed grip. This article will have more info than you could imagine on deadlift grips: The Grip Problem | Barbell Medicine

[David McClelland]

Thanks for your response. I see no reason to go to hook grip when I can go straight to what I see most every major lifter using and recommending and what I already know I'm going to prefer.

As far as Jordan and his info, let's just say I do not prefer to go that route and have a few other SSC coaches, dietitians and nutritionists I'd rather get answers from. Nothing personal and that's the reason it's so good to have so many of them around.

[HomeBrew]

I’ve changed to hook and much prefer it to mixed grip. No windmilling effect. It hurt at first but now I don’t even notice it. I DOH all the warmups and hook the work sets, it feels so similar there’s no surprises like there is with mixed.

[thejosef]

Are you doing long holds and/or heavy holds to help your grip strength? I just see no point in doing mixed grip, unless you are making money off the sport of powerlifting. Why risk the torn bicep and 6 months off training? I know of at least three 'real-life' lifters who have had this injury. Just my opinion. Good luck in whatever you choose.

[David McClelland]

Are you doing long holds and/or heavy holds to help your grip strength? I just see no point in doing mixed grip, unless you are making money off the sport of powerlifting. Why risk the torn bicep and 6 months off training? I know of at least three 'real-life' lifters who have had this injury. Just my opinion. Good luck in whatever you choose.

Thanks for that info. See I think I'm more prone to pulling type injuries and wanted feedback and you gave me some.

I haven't tried doing long static holds yet but just read about them when the problem happened and will start practicing them, too.

So you guys have convinced me to start trying a hook grip. From what I understand I will probably have to use it on warm up sets only until I get this in order for my work sets.

Anything to get me off of straps!

Thanks guys!

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Thanks for your response. I see no reason to go to hook grip when I can go straight to what I see most every major lifter using and recommending and what I already know I'm going to prefer.

As far as Jordan and his info, let's just say I do not prefer to go that route and have a few other SSC coaches, dietitians and nutritionists I'd rather get answers from. Nothing personal and that's the reason it's so good to have so many of them around.

The generic advice you're going to get from the other SSC coaches, dietitians, and nutritionists you prefer you get your information from is that you should pull all your sets double overhand until you get to a weight where your grip won't hold. Then when it won't hold any longer , you'll switch to hook grip on your last warm up set so that there is no change between last warm ups and work sets.

That is reasonable management, though for skill development and acclimation in the certain context of someone who cannot effectively use a book grip, I would have you pull with a mixed grip from the very first set all the way up to your work set. After acclimation (a few weeks), you would be free to do double overhand for light warm ups and then switch to mixed grip on heavier warm ups and always your last warm up and work sets (when not using straps).

There's some Nuance™ here.

Finally, I am not sure how to take your comments here and on our YouTube channel without regarding them as being inflammatory. If this is in error, I apologize. If it is not,
then I would be happy to discuss this publicly so that you may not talk about Barbell Medicine in this regard without good reason. Thank you.

[Fulcrum]

You mentioned "being cautious at age 46" or whatever.

I know no one who has tore an bicep pulling with straps or Hookgrip. Maybe there's a case or two out there, IDK.

I HAVE heard and seen plenty of lifters tear their supinated bicep pulling heavy deads. And some of these were the "major lifters".

If you're not going to ever compete, just use the straps.
What does it matter? Why limit your dead progress just because of grip.

My personal preference is to learn the hookgrip. Slowly work it in as others have said.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Interesting. I always recommend that lifters use a hook grip for heavy deadlifts unless they just absolutely don't want to or can't for some reason. The hook solves several potentially bad problems and creates very few, if you're willing to get your thumbs used to the idea. All told, the alternate grip can be used safely as long as you pay careful attention to the supine elbow. It can be used efficiently if you keep the bar as low in your fingers as you can manage. But if you have already fucked up your forearm flexors, don't supinate that side. The hook solves this problem.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Interesting. I always recommend that lifters use a hook grip for heavy deadlifts unless they just absolutely don't want to or can't for some reason. The hook solves several potentially bad problems and creates very few, if you're willing to get your thumbs used to the idea. All told, the alternate grip can be used safely as long as you pay careful attention to the supine elbow. It can be used efficiently if you keep the bar as low in your fingers as you can manage. But if you have already fucked up your forearm flexors, don't supinate that side. The hook solves this problem.

No disagreement here, hence the article we published together.