Sumo Deadlift Breaking the Floor

[oshirok]

I deadlift sumo and up until recently I, like most others, have been weak off the floor. I've found that if I start with my legs straight and drop down quickly right before I pull, I can break the floor significantly easier and my lockout actually ends up being my weak point. I'm not sure if the lock out is difficult because I just don't have the lock out strength, or if it's because I'm not in as good a position when I'm nearing lock out, if that made any sense.

I'm curious if any others have experience with similar technique adjustments for sumo or even conventional.

The first video is 455x3 from last week.
The second video is 455x1 from about 4 months ago, just as an example of how slow off the floor I was. I think I only weigh about 2 lbs lighter here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtpIyZ0s1HI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBcpZYHsmtM

some stats
bw: 165 lbs
height: 5'5"
age: 20
recent lifts
sumo dl: 455x3, 485x1
squat: 355x6, 405x1

[Meshuggah]

Nice pulling!! I started experimenting with Sumo about 6 weeks ago.

[PaulBeech]

Your lock out strength isn't that weak. You should watch some videos of people on here like derf to see some weak lock outs.

[oshirok]

Nice pulling!! I started experimenting with Sumo about 6 weeks ago.

Thanks. I started pulling sumo around a year ago and I find I'm significantly stronger that way, so I train both styles.

Your lock out strength isn't that weak. You should watch some videos of people on here like derf to see some weak lock outs.

Well, yeah it's not that bad. I just find it strange that my lock out is the limiting factor right now. The first time I tried pulling like this I missed 465 at lock out and I was so surprised, since I'd always been able to lock out what I could get off the floor.

[Sean Stangl]

The first time I tried pulling like this I missed 465 at lock out and I was so surprised, since I'd always been able to lock out what I could get off the floor.

I train at a gym where most people pull sumo. Most deadlift training days also involve heavy block pulls to work on the difficult part. For conventional lifters, the analogue to sumo block pulls is pulls from a deficit.

[PaulBeech]

I used to have no problem locking out sumo and just recently it's become harder and harder. But at the same time my ability to keep a straight upper back has gone out the window too.

[Tom Narvaez]

The dip is throwing you forward which makes it harder to finish.

When pulling like this, round backed, you can essentially turn the first part of the lift into something sub-maximal. The bar starts forward of mid-foot and the lever arm between the knees and the bar increases. This allows you take advantage of strong legs more effectively. It also produces a non-vertical bar path, but this inefficiency is sometimes worth it for people with strong quads (similar to how Oly shoes work better for some people despite making it a deficit). However, because you get so rounded and so out of position doing this, it makes the lockout way harder.

100% a positioning thing, IME.

I pull the same way but even more exaggerated. It looks worse than yours:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osl1LV0zpfs&t=5m0s

[Jonathan Sutton]

I have trouble getting consistent positioning for sumo - I don't pull deadlifts that often - but it seems like the closer I can get my hips to the bar the easier it is to break it off the floor. That said, I've never had trouble breaking it off the floor, I always fail around mid-shin if I let the bar go forward.

Also, I find deficit sumo's are frickin way harder than deficit conventionals. When I was pulling around 450 conventional I could get 420 for a double standing on a bumper plate, but I tried 350 sumo from a 2" deficit and nearly died.

[oshirok]

I train at a gym where most people pull sumo. Most deadlift training days also involve heavy block pulls to work on the difficult part. For conventional lifters, the analogue to sumo block pulls is pulls from a deficit.

So most of those guys are weaker at lock out?

The dip is throwing you forward which makes it harder to finish.

When pulling like this, round backed, you can essentially turn the first part of the lift into something sub-maximal. The bar starts forward of mid-foot and the lever arm between the knees and the bar increases. This allows you take advantage of strong legs more effectively. It also produces a non-vertical bar path, but this inefficiency is sometimes worth it for people with strong quads (similar to how Oly shoes work better for some people despite making it a deficit). However, because you get so rounded and so out of position doing this, it makes the lockout way harder.

100% a positioning thing, IME.

I pull the same way but even more exaggerated. It looks worse than yours:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osl1LV0zpfs&t=5m0s

That's interesting, I was thinking it was mostly a positioning thing. Also on some reps, when my timing is off, I push the bar significantly forward with my shins, which makes it even worse. Starting with the dip gave me about 20 lbs on my pull the first time I tried, which is why I've been trying to pull like that recently. So some lock out work would be a good idea? Or is there some way to get in a better position.

Thanks for the responses guys.

[oshirok]

I have trouble getting consistent positioning for sumo - I don't pull deadlifts that often - but it seems like the closer I can get my hips to the bar the easier it is to break it off the floor. That said, I've never had trouble breaking it off the floor, I always fail around mid-shin if I let the bar go forward.

Also, I find deficit sumo's are frickin way harder than deficit conventionals. When I was pulling around 450 conventional I could get 420 for a double standing on a bumper plate, but I tried 350 sumo from a 2" deficit and nearly died.

Hips closer to the bar as in a wider stance?

You're probably stronger at conventional though, right? I'm significantly stronger with sumo. I tried pulling sumo from a 3" deficit a couple of times. The first 1/4 of the lift took twice as long as the last 3/4 I think.