Some specific questions regarding BCAA's

[BarryF]

Jordan,

I know that BCAA's have been discussed repeatedly in this forum, but there are a couple of specific questions I have that I've had difficulty finding clear answers to. From what I gather, BCAA's would be most beneficial when taken immediately post workout @ 10 grams. If one wanted to take them more frequently, dosing would be 10 g pre and post workout, and for maximum possible benefit, also taken between meals @ 5 grams.

1) Is it safe to assume that BCAA's elevate mps to similar levels than a meal or protein shake with 20g+ of protein would?

2) What is the reasoning behind BCAA supplementation immediately pre workout, and why is this better than a whey protein shake, other than fewer calories for those whom that may be a goal.

3) Why are BCAA's immediately post workout superior to whey protein shake?

4) Why is taking or sipping BCAA's during a workout not effective?

From what I can gather, the whole purpose of BCAA's is to trigger MPS by supplying the body with AA's at the proper times.

If all this stuff has been clearly discussed before, don't respond and I'll keep digging. Otherwise, thanks.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

1) Yes.
2) Fueling and limiting muscle catabolism during training. Less cals than whey, faster than whey.
3) Less cals than whey, faster than whey. Cheaper per MPS than whey.
4) Effective for what?

[amsgator]

Scivation Xtend serving size is 7g BCAAs. Is that enough, or should one be taking 10g?

[Elephant]

1) Is 20g+ of protein the approximate threshold for MPS, but the more protein, the more MPS?

3) I had thought the recommendation was BCAA in addition to the day's total amount of protein, including whey. Is this wrong?

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Scivation Xtend serving size is 7g BCAAs. Is that enough, or should one be taking 10g?

7g is enough bc of the leucine content.

1) Is 20g+ of protein the approximate threshold for MPS, but the more protein, the more MPS?

3) I had thought the recommendation was BCAA in addition to the day's total amount of protein, including whey. Is this wrong?

1) Depends on the leucine content, but probably 20g whey is enough. Higher leucine doses do appear to maximize MPS up to 1.5g of protein per lb, but the trend isn't statistically significant after ~4g of leucine is had per meal.

3) It is, but I don't count the BCAAs as protein when tracking macros.

[Elephant]

I don't count the BCAAs as protein when tracking macros.

How do you count them?

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

How do you count them?

I don't.

[ludwig23]

Warning: might be stupid question ahead.
In barbellmedicine you talk about a refractory period for MPS, and recommend 5 meals a day at most. So 20 grams of proteins and 3 grams of leucine for each meal for 5 meals? I know you don't like rules of thumb but please just explain a bit because it feels too much written in stone to me. Did I get it wrong?
Also, the glutamine in soy protein is higher than in whey. Does it matter anything?
Also, does isoleucine and valine means anything?
I have been reading barbell medicine and it has lots of good infomation, as far as i can tell. kudos to you.
Thanks!

[Newbie68]

I'm confused on the recommended timing...

I.e., dose 90 minutes to 3 hours after a meal.

If the meals I eat contain 30g+ of animal protein, MPS starts, and then I'm in a refractory period in which no more MPS will take place for 3 to 5 hours. That would seem to suggest that dosing BCAA's 90 min to 3 hours later wouldn't do anything for me.

And then eating 90 min to 3 hours again after dosing BCAA's..same issue, no? I'm still in my refractory period, so the subsequent meal isn't going to trigger MPS.

What am I missing?

Thanks!

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Warning: might be stupid question ahead.
In barbellmedicine you talk about a refractory period for MPS, and recommend 5 meals a day at most. So 20 grams of proteins and 3 grams of leucine for each meal for 5 meals?

3-4g leucine per meal, yes. This is usually found in 20-30g protein depending on the source.

I know you don't like rules of thumb but please just explain a bit because it feels too much written in stone to me.

Explain what specifically?

Also, the glutamine in soy protein is higher than in whey. Does it matter anything?

Glutamine is not a terribly useful supplement so no, it doesn't matter.

Also, does isoleucine and valine means anything?

Yes, these are both BCAAs.

If the meals I eat contain 30g+ of animal protein, MPS starts, and then I'm in a refractory period in which no more MPS will take place for 3 to 5 hours. That would seem to suggest that dosing BCAA's 90 min to 3 hours later wouldn't do anything for me.

Dosing more BCAAs from a food source would not do anything for you in the context of MPS, but free form BCAAs (supplemental form) spike blood concentrations of amino acids sky high for a bit, which provides an extra "kick" of MPS, if you will. This makes them unique.