Juggernaut training systems selling ...

[MBasic]

...The quads these days.

A lot push for knees forward, belt squats, leg presses for those whos leg strength lacks compared to back (deadlift) strength. GM squatters.

More squatting is not the answer (paraphrasing)

[Daverin]

...The quads these days.

A lot push for knees forward, belt squats, leg presses for those whos leg strength lacks compared to back (deadlift) strength. GM squatters.

More squatting is not the answer (paraphrasing)

Chad, who is a noticeable example of a guy who wants to stay upright; Max Aita, aka that dude who actually trained under Abadjiev; and a strong relationship with dah Nucks, who of course we have talked about more than enough to frustrate some? Yeah, I'd be frankly surprised if there wasn't a quad-dominant mindset in the crew. Kind of ironic, though, that they also have a good relationship with Blaine Sumner... who is about as pitched forward as they come.

EDIT: Also, did you post this because there has been a lack of training topics that can rustle jimmies lately? We went kind of quiet after Limbo Pressing.

[manveer]

I am a "GM squatter" when shit is heavy... like 95% of 1RM or more. It is frustrating. I am also pretty weak on front squats, probably limited by my ability to hold a front rack. You can't really GM pin squats. Those make me feel like my quads are relatively weak.

Doing hyper specific training (basically zero assistance) for the first 4 years probably wasn't the best approach. I'm trying a few form tweaks. Going to try SSB squats soon, see if that carries over.

[chromoly]

Like Manveer, I too am a "squat morning" lifter when it's 95% or more. Maybe even closer to 92%. I can barely front squat, but at least my deadlift is strong af.

For me, I think it's mostly a motor pattern. I have done very specific training, almost exclusively low bar. Under heavy weights, I use any means necessary (good morning) to get the weight up. I'm slowly working on staying more upright and using my quads more out of the hole. First incorporating it on volume and light days. Intensity day is really too difficult to think while squatting, but I have faith that when I cycle back to fives on ID, I'll be staying more upright.

I have big and clearly not weak quads. I think I'm used to letting my back take over. The JTS "back-dominant" squatter rather than the "leg dominant" squatter, if you will.

[manveer]

Video on the subject with input from Rori Alter SSC:

[OCG]

Well they have to sell something right? If they're all the same as everyone else, and the answer is "Well, it depends..." then that doesn't sell very well.

[Hassan Mansour]

If you start watching lots and lots of squats on social media and in most gyms, you'll find that "push the knees forward" is a pretty good cue for lots of people regardless of whether it's high-bar or low-bar squats you are looking at.

Lots of people are under the impression that you have to squat with nearly vertical shins and muscle up weights with your back when things get heavy. This obviously isn’t correct.

Some people even show up to the Starting Strength seminars and try to squat with nearly vertical shins and this drives Rip and the staff pretty crazy, too. The knees forward thing is discussed in the book both in the squat and front squat chapters/sections.

In fact, I specifically remember Rip making someone rack the bar after watching them attempt to squat with nearly vertical shins and yelling out "this isn't Westside, you have to bend your knees in order to squat." Ha!

After the novice phase, for some lifters, throwing in some variants that "emphasize the quads" is usually suitable for lifters who have trouble with the proprioceptive aspect of driving the knees forwards properly and "using their quads". Front squats, pin squats, SSB squats, or belt squats would be decent variants for this particular situation depending on the lifter and the program. Lots of intermediate/advanced lifters who don't have this problem can get by without any of those variants and just stick to plain ol’ squats, paused squats, etc. without any particular "quad emphasis".

Not quite sure how any of this is supposed to be controversial.

[OCG]

I think perhaps it's the blanket recommendations. "Everyone needs to drive the knees forwards and use the quads more and focus on quad specific accessory work" rather than "Here's something that might work if you have problems with this and this and this".

[Dag]

Some people even show up to the Starting Strength seminars and try to squat with nearly vertical shins and this drives Rip and the staff pretty crazy, too. The knees forward thing is discussed in the book both in the squat and front squat chapters/sections.

Think this stems from the lemming nut swingers like T-Nation flooding the Internet with whatever the trainer or lifter of the day is saying at the time. Unfortunately, for more than a decade, geared lifting was all the powerlifting rage so all the younger generation had to go by was what they read on the 'net, which was how to squat in a suit, though places like T-Nation never made that distinction. They just said "Louie says squats are all hips and hamstrings. Here's how you can squat like a Westsider!" Their readers weren't around pre double canvas when powerlifters actively tried to strengthen their quads. Quads help with squatting...it's so crazy it just might work.

quite sure how any of this is supposed to be controversial.

Me either.

[Satch12879]

If you start watching lots and lots of squats on social media and in most gyms, you'll find that "push the knees forward" is a pretty good cue for lots of people regardless of whether it's high-bar or low-bar squats you are looking at.

Lots of people are under the impression that you have to squat with nearly vertical shins and muscle up weights with your back when things get heavy. This obviously isn’t correct.

Some people even show up to the Starting Strength seminars and try to squat with nearly vertical shins and this drives Rip and the staff pretty crazy, too. The knees forward thing is discussed in the book both in the squat and front squat chapters/sections.

In fact, I specifically remember Rip making someone rack the bar after watching them attempt to squat with nearly vertical shins and yelling out "this isn't Westside, you have to bend your knees in order to squat." Ha!

After the novice phase, for some lifters, throwing in some variants that "emphasize the quads" is usually suitable for lifters who have trouble with the proprioceptive aspect of driving the knees forwards properly and "using their quads". Front squats, pin squats, SSB squats, or belt squats would be decent variants for this particular situation depending on the lifter and the program. Lots of intermediate/advanced lifters who don't have this problem can get by without any of those variants and just stick to plain ol’ squats, paused squats, etc. without any particular "quad emphasis".

Not quite sure how any of this is supposed to be controversial.

::long, slow, clap::