Squat form check (150kg)

[philip.h]

Hi,

I already have a form check thread in the Technique subforum but haven't got any responses to my recent updates so thought I'd try here.

In February, thanks to the forum, I identified some form issues with my squat (for the Nth time). My knees were coming together very noticeably on the ascent, and my feet were pointed out too much (more like 45 degrees) so I reset the weight down to about 120kg, focused on form, and worked my way back up slowly in a linear manner.

Here is a video of my squats from Monday - 3 x 5 x 150kg (330 lbs): http://vimeo.com/62128201 . The video shows all three sets. The third set is shown from two different angles (rear quarter, and side on from about knee height).

My observations:
- First set: knees sliding forward at bottom. Also doing a pretty noticeable good morning (butt rising faster than chest, bar path coming forward).
- Second set: maybe a little better. My knees coming together on the ascent, although it's better than it used to be several weeks ago.
- Third set: better again, felt ok.

My form has certainly improved lately, but I'm struggling to stop my knees collapsing in on the ascent once the weight gets sufficiently heavy.

I would really appreciate any feedback. Am I ok to keep adding weight, or is it bad enough that it would be wiser to reset again and focus correct the form issues?

One more thing... My third set of squats always seem to better form-wise than my first and second sets (although harder due to fatigue). Anyone else experience this?

Thanks.

[Matt Reynolds]

Phil,

Couple of notes...

Not sure if its just my monitor, but the "blacks" in the video are very hard to distinguish, so seeing exactly where your knees are is hard with dark pants and dark ground. That said...

1) You primary problem in my opinion is a significant back angle change, which I believe is caused from a) letting knees slide too far forward at the bottom of the descent, and b) shoving your knees and ass BACK to compensate rather than driving your ass UP when coming out of the hole. Because your knees and ass push back out of the hole, then to keep the bar over mid-foot requires you to make your back more horizontal, leading to more moment force on the entire back segment, which is f-ing up the concentric portion of the movement.

2) Yes your knees come in a bit as you bounce out of the hole - this is normal (though still not good - and will get better with work, which it seems you are already doing.)

3) Remember that the knees track forward a little and OUT at the beginning of the descent, then STOP tracking forward and just keep shoving OUT for the rest of the descent. The ascent is the same - where the knees keep their position (actively shoving out) after the rebound and do not move BACK until the top half of the ascent. When the first movement out of the hole, is shoving the knees back, -the ass moves back and up, the back bends over, the chest caves, and its a domino effect of problems from then on.

Matt

[Matt Reynolds]

BTW, Your squat is pretty good - you have good hip drive and set 3, is by far the best of the 3 - its really pretty damn close to what a 3rd heavy set of 5 should look like.

Set 1 was the worst as far as I can tell, with regards to the knee and back angle problem.

[Matt Reynolds]

You need to widen your stance a bit too (2"?)

[Steve Hill]

You need to widen your stance a bit too (2"?)

Maybe he's trying to squat like Matt Reynolds?

Probably about an inch, IMO.

The other thing he needs to get out of that habit of doing (and immediately) is bouncing the bar on his shoulders at the top before the start of each rep. That shit gets old fast wehen the weigh gets really heavy, and can cause the bar to re-position.

Above and beyond what Matt has already said (none of which I disagree with), the only other thing that I don't like is the hands. OP - you need to grip the bar.

[philip.h]

Thanks for the detailed responses Matt and Steve!

Sorry about the poor lighting in the video, I must've accidentally bumped something on my camera on the last two sets.

It sounds like most of the visible problems with my form are being caused by letting my knees slide forward late into the descent.

On Wednesday's squats at 3x5x152.5kg (which was before I read your replies) I noticed that my knees were sliding forward at the bottom and worked on that. Again it got better by the third set and one rep in particular felt great (first rep of the third set).

I will work on the following:
- widen my stance by 1" to 2"
- not bounce the bar at the top
- knees forward/out during the first third to half of the descent, and try to keep them there and really sit back
- shove my knees out hard on the ascent

Do you think it would be wise to drop the weight back by say 10kg to work on these form corrections, or just keep plodding ahead?

Thanks again.

[gtl]

You need to widen your stance a bit too (2"?)

Sorry to hijack..

Would you recommend the outside of his heels be lined up with the outside of his shoulders?

I have similar proportions to the OP and I tend to err on the side of a more narrow stance but am always wondering if I should go a bit wider.

Thanks.

[Steve Hill]

Sorry to hijack..

Would you recommend the outside of his heels be lined up with the outside of his shoulders?

I have similar proportions to the OP and I tend to err on the side of a more narrow stance but am always wondering if I should go a bit wider.

Thanks.

We can't see your stance from here.

[gtl]

We can't see your stance from here.

I never implied that you could.

[Steve Hill]

No, but you're asking us for advice based on several assumptions, some of which are most likely faulty.

Or rather, you're asking us about his stance, attempting to apply the assumptions you have from his stance to yours. Some of those assumptions are most likely faulty. Better to let us look at your stance - so post a video.