Seti's TM log

[Róbert Kovács]

Hi,

I'm Robert from Budapest, Hungary. This will be a TM log with a bit more humble weights than most of you guys have around here in the intermediate section. Hope it will be useful for others as well.

I'll also be trying out Bill Starr's method for the Press described in his article The Quest for a Stronger Overhead Press.

Stats:
Age: 32
Gender: male
Height: 180cm (5'11'')
Weight: 100kg (220lbs)

Weight training history:
Got on Starting Strength around July 2010, but started actually DOING the program in the middle of September, same year. My starting bodyweight then was 80kg, and got up to 90kg by December. All in all my lifts were:

After Starting Strength:
Squat: 142.5kg (3x5)
Press: 63.5kg (3x5)
Deadlift: 150kg (1x5)
Bench: 90kg (3x5)
Power Clean: 62.5kg (5x3)

From this January I did TM for 8 weeks:
Squat: 155kg (1x5)
Press: 68kg (1x5)
Deadlift: 157.5kg (1x5)
Bench: 95kg (1x5)
Power Cleans remained around the same.

From March till now I did 4 cycles of 5/3/1, with the 2 days per week template. I've started BJJ again, that was the reason for my decision. Interesting experience. It was an uneven progress, some lifts went up, some seemingly went down. It's Hard to tell because of the different reps each week. Bench was the definite winner here, with Deadlift also improving, and Power Cleans as well after finally getting the technique a bit better.

My starting PRs: (2011.05.28)
Squat:156kg 2RM, the 1x5 went down
Press: 77kg 1RM
Deadlift: 167.5kg 3RM
Bench: 102.5kg 5RM
Power Clean: 80kg 1RM (ugly form, 75kg was proper)

So after this lengthy introduction, here are my main goals:
-Get Squat to 180kg (396lbs)
-Press Bodyweight
-Get Deadlift to 200kg 1RM (440 lbs)
-Get Chins firmly above 10

All-time PRs (updated when applicable):
Squat: 170kg 1RM
Press: 85kg 1RM
Deadlift: 190kg 1RM
Bench press: 115kg 1RM
Power Clean: 100kg 1RM
Power Snatch: 60kg 2RM

This was my starting TM/Starr routine:
Usual training days: Sunday (Vo), Tuesday(Re), Thursday(In)

Volume Day: Squat (3-5)x5, Press (3-6)x3, Light Power Clean, RDL, Weighted Dips as the Press assistance.
The 3-6 on the Press means that first day it's 3x3, then 4x3 and so on. After 6x3 is reached the weight goes up by 5 pounds and do 3x3 again.

Recovery Day: Squat 2x5, Bench, Chins, Weighted situps

Intensity Day: Heavy Squat, Press (3-6)x3, Deadlift / Heavy Power Clean alternated, Chins

Then my Split routine:

Sun: Press 5x5, Weighted dips 3x10, Chins 3xF
Mon: Squat 3x5 (70%), Paused Squats 3x3, Power Snatch / Power Clean 10x1, RDL 3x10

Wed: Press 5x1/3x2, Press-grip Bench 3x5, Weighted Chins 5x3
Thu: Squat 5x1 (90%), Deadlift 1x5/1x3, Barbell Row 3x10

[Róbert Kovács]

05/29 Volume day

Squat
20kg 2x5
60kg 1x5
100kg 1x3
115kg 1x2
130kg 4x5

Didn't quite catch the groove in the beginning, I've got to get used to sets across again at relatively heavy weights. I'll adjust between 3 and 5 sets as needed, and only up the weight after a few weeks when Intensity days indicate it.

Press
20kg 1x5
40kg 1x5
60kg 1x1
70kg 3x3
60kg 1x8 back-off set

Felt great! Grinded out the 8th rep on the back-off set, I'll try to get to 10 reps over the weeks at this weight. Alltogether it's more demanding than TM presses, and a bit different than 3x5. I guess it will be even more interesting when it gets to 6x3. I'm thinking about not doing the back-off set on Intensity days, but probably will stick to it for now and see how it affects the Power Cleans and the Deadlift.

Chins
9,7,6

[Róbert Kovács]

05/31 Recovery day

Squat
20kg 2x5
60kg 1x5
100kg 2x5

Quads, and especially hamstrings were quite sore from the volume day. I've got to get used to this kind of volume again.

Bench
20kg 1x5
60kg 1x5
80kg 1x3
90kg 2x5

Weighted Dips
Bodyweight 1x5
+14kg 3x5

[Róbert Kovács]

06/02 Intensity day

Squat
20kg 2x5
60kg 1x5
100kg 1x3
115kg 1x2
130kg 1x1
145kg 1x5

The work set felt tougher than when I was doing this weight the last time, but it was ok.

Press
20kg 1x5
40kg 1x5
60kg 1x1
70kg 4x3
60kg 1x8

Nice and strong. Although the back-off set was better than last time (8th rep fine, could even start the 9th, but failed), it might be a better idea to leave them out of intensity day. It took me out of breath.

Power Clean
20kg 1x5 technique warmup with bar
50kg 1x3 warmup
60kg 1x1
65kg 1x1
70kg 1x1
72,5kg 6x1 (+1 failed in the middle)

Was alright, but I could definitely feel the fatigue from the squats and probably the press back-off set.

Deadlift
Power Cleans were supposed to be part of the deadlift warmup, but the two together were clearly too much.
100kg 1x5
120kg 1x2
140kg 1x1
155kg 1x5

Back rounded quite a bit by the end, the power clean had a clear effect on this, probably that I did several singles that were heavy to me. When I did 5/3/1 this method worked, but then I didn't have anything before the pulls. The Squat and press put enough stress on my system, that this PC + Deadlift setup might not be appropriate. What do you think?

Chins
8,5,4

No wonder it was less than before, considering all the previous work.

Altogether the session was a bit over 80 minutes, longer than the volume day was, and this doesn't sound too right. I'll put the power clean back to volume day and see how it feels. I'll also skip the press back-off set probably on the next intensity day.

Just did a quick calculation of the tonnage.
Volume day:5100kg
Intensity day: 6172.5kg

No wonder it's messed up. See modified program in the first post. What do you guys think?

[Antigen]

Hey what a coincidence, I just started the TM with Bill Starr's Press setup this Monday with 80kgx3x5. I'm holding it at 5x3 and using that as my volume press workout.

My upper body setup looks like this:
Volume
Press 5x3
Incline 1-2x8-10
Pullups

Recovery
Press 5x1 @ 90% Friday

Intensity
Press 5x1 alt w/ Bench 5x1
Chinups

Dips and Curls are done for 2 sets and alternate each training day for 1.5x a week frequency. Chins/Pulls are 3xF with a load I get less than 20 at or one heavy weighted set and a -50 backoff, like what was described in the Press article for Dips. I'll be watching this to see how it's working for you.

[Róbert Kovács]

Great! I wonder how the assistance work will do. For my weighted Dip setup, I'll follow a simple 3x5 until I get it up a bit more. I figured that the dip setup in the article is more of an advanced programming, and since I'm a novice in weighted dips, 3x5 should be good for now.

[Antigen]

I have used the assistance scheme in the past and it worked. I completed 2 cycles of his Dip routine dipping about every 5th day (since my program wasn't fixed with the calendar week) and got 86kg when I tested the single. Then I had to drop them out to get ready for a Powerlifting meet.

I don't make fast progress on pull-ups or chins either unless I do them twice a week. Current goal is to win the middleweight category of this competition: http://www.extremepullups.com/compet...e-competition/

3x5 has worked great for novices I've had do them. When it gets stuck, I'd transition to Starr's setup. (if you're still getting stronger quickly enough you'll find you often beat what you did the first week on the third week's backoff set.)

Power cleans/Hi-Pull as DL warmup, to make this idea work don't add more sets to your warmup than you would normally have with just deadlifts. If I worked up to a 157.5-160kg 5RM using PC and Hi-Pull warmups. It might look like:
PC 20x3
PC 60x3
PC 80x1
PC 100x1
Hi Pull 120x1
Deadlift 140x1
Ready for Workset

I find it important to keep the volume down in warm ups.

From what I've read in PPST2 and Justin Lascek's TM E-book back off sets belong on volume day not intensity day. Next week when you Press on recovery day, you don't need to go very easy on the 3x5, a 90-95% effort still serves as a deload compared to 5x5 benching. If after a few weeks of the tweaks intensity day fatigue still bleeds over into monday's squats consider doing a 3RM on DL.

[Róbert Kovács]

Thanks for the tips! I was thinking the same thing about the weighted dips, 3x5 for now, later probably the Starr setup from the article.

You're right about the power clean as warmup. The mistake I made was that I took my 5/3/1 approach of PC + Deadlift on one day to the intensity day on a TM template. I'll keep the volume power cleans on volume day and do them only as warmup on intensity day.

About the back-off set we're on the same terms. I didn't mention it, but I'll do presses for one more week at least. And keep bench on maintenance mode during that. I'm thinking in terms of a 2 week press-, 1 week bench template at the moment, but I'm still experimenting. Benching is not really my main goal right now (although they're nothing stellar), and I guess doing presses more often would be beneficial to improve them.

One thing I'm not sure about now is when I have bench week, what rep scheme should I follow on the press? Should I do 3x5, or keep on doing a 6x3 without a back-off set? I figure in the beginning I'll be able to add a complete set of 3 to each press workout, like this: week1 3x3 +back-off, 4x3, week2 5x3 +back-off, 6x3, then next week is bench week. On recovery day I could do the previous week's 6x3 (no back-off set of course). What do you think? Would it be too much for a recovery day? Adjust it after how the last 6x3 felt?

I'll probably need to fine tune DL later on when it's needed. The 3RM is one thing I've also considered, as well as 2 doubles, singles and so on, up to 5 rep total volume. But for now I'll try to bring up the fives.

[Róbert Kovács]

06/05 Volume day

Squat
20kg 2x5
60kg 1x5
100kg 1x5
115kg 1x2
130kg 5x5

Felt much better than last week.

Press
20kg 1x5
40kg 1x5
60kg 1x1
70kg 5x3
60kg 1x8

Little hiccup on the 4th set, but finished all of them without much trouble. Back-off set is still 8 and a half rep. After I'm done with the 8th rep, I'm out of breath.

Power Clean
20kg 1x3
50kg 1x3
60kg 1x1
65kg 1x1
70kg 1x1
75kg 8x1

I did the 8th rep, because 7th one had some arm in it.

Chins
8,5,4

Maybe I didn't rest enough before and between chins, will see if they will start to crawl up. Alltogether it was a good workout, my body starts to adapt to this kind of workload again.

[Antigen]

Repeating a 6x3 would not be light, especially after monday's volume bench. You need to do something that keeps you prepared to Press the following week but wont prevent a PR on Friday's bench. (It was a popular assistance exercise for the press after all.) 3x3 at the same or slightly less weight than previous friday might work, as would a 3x5 at 90% of the previous friday press. There should be great form, no doubt about making a single rep and no need to psyche up.
You might want to try pull-ups too, with time they might even become stronger than hands facing chins. They would just alternate with each other.