Recurring issue with squat involving severe overpronation.

[pantsaregood]

First off, I'd like to inform you that I actually used the search feature. You've run into some cases of this before, so I will do my best to present to you all relevant information.

I previously owned prescription orthotics. One of them snapped in half during a set of squats a while back, so now I'm using PowerStep Pinnacle Maxx orthotics. The difference in the two sets (as far as functionality) is minimal. The orthotics I'm using are here: http://www.amazon.com/Powerstep%C2%A.../dp/B0049H2Z2G

This is my left foot - my right foot looks the same:
Attachment 2210

In a previous thread, you recommended supinating the feet for a set of 20. I did this three times, and felt absolutely nothing.

As for why this is an issue: I can't keep my knees out. I push out as hard as I can manage, but they always buckle in because my ankles are rolling in. I also have a tendency to "Good Morning" my squats, which I believe is a result of my glutes being put in an awful position to activate due to my knees buckling in. I was able to correct this for a while by squatting to a box and emphasizing "sitting back" - keeping the weight over my heel instead of the middle of my foot kept my ankle locked in place relatively well. As my squats have gotten heavier, my ankles have begun to collapse in again.

I may be wrong about poor glute activation, but once my knee is almost fully extended, I can usually manage to drive my knees out a little and then my hips pop forward with minimal effort. I know that "glute amnesia" is largely a myth, but I'm not suggesting that's my problem - only that my glutes are being put in a poor position to help.






From the side it isn't really apparent, but from behind you can see that the weight shifts towards the insides of my feet as I lower.

I'm willing to do anything at this point. If that entails stuffing the inside of my shoes with something hard so my ankles can't move, I'll do it.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Your stance lacks about 20 degrees being pointed out enough. Have you read the book? And why attribute to feet a problem that is obviously in your hips? What muscles are responsible for maintaining femoral abduction/external rotation? Your post should be titled "Recurring issue with squat involving severe femoral adduction/internal rotation."

[pantsaregood]

I have read the book.

When I point my toes out further, my feet collapse more.

I assumed that the issue was related to my feet because the inward rolling motion of my ankles leaves me unable to push my knees out. I've always been under the impression that effectively transferring force through the foot requires three points of contact. Two at the front of the foot and one at the heel. When I load my feet, the outsides of my feet don't even contact the ground.

If my analysis of the problem is incorrect, then could you possibly provide some input on what to do? I know "shove the knees out," and I consciously do that at all times. I will make a new video with my toes pointed out further if it is necessary for assistance.

My (apparently incorrect) assumption that my feet are culprit is based on the fact that my hip angle naturally opens if I supinate my feet. The tibia is attached to the ankle, so ankles rolling inward will result in tibia angle moving inward, which results in the knees drifting towards each other.

[Mark Rippetoe]

The tibia is attached to the ankle, so ankles rolling inward will result in tibia angle moving inward, which results in the knees drifting towards each other.

If you are convinced that this aspect of the system works from the floor up, I don't know what else to tell you. Again, what muscles are responsible for maintaining femoral abduction/external rotation? If you use them with your feet at the correct angle, and your lower leg musculature and innervation is intact, you can maintain supination if you choose the correct weight. If you are pronator, you'll have to correct it by exaggerating supination.

[pantsaregood]

I acknowledge that I am probably wrong about the problem being from the ground up. I don't like the idea of dropping my squat by 150 lbs so I can force supination, but I will do so if it helps in the end.

Something else that may be relevant to this is that if I stand up, my feet probate horribly. If I forcibly extend my hips from a standing position, they assume a neutral position.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Many flat-footed people squat correctly every day.

[Gunnhild Bruno]

Didn't you say you were getting custom orthotics back in your thread in "Technique"?

[JB1981]

It just seems like your stance is too straight. Your feet should be pointed out more and maybe narrow your stance a bit? Is it possible that you are overcomplicating this whole thing?

[Mark Rippetoe]

I thought I said that.

[tertius]

I assumed that the issue was related to my feet because the inward rolling motion of my ankles leaves me unable to push my knees out. I've always been under the impression that effectively transferring force through the foot requires three points of contact. Two at the front of the foot and one at the heel. When I load my feet, the outsides of my feet don't even contact the ground.

Three points of contact: heel, ball of the foot behind the big toe, the big toe. It's not a big deal if the outside of your foot doesn't touch the ground (even in terms of stability when squatting, really), but it does seem obvious that it's your knees coming in that are causing your ankles to collapse, not the other way around. As the Chinese say: "The waist is the commander".

Squat a weight where you can push your knees out, in a proper stance, and keep them there. Work up from there. I suspect you'll get sore a few times in some places you haven't thus far. It's not glorious, or an instant fix, but it works.