Downward gaze/ normal anatomical neck position

[butter]

Hi Mark,

I note your main take on eye position on the squat, in addition, theres an intersting finding I would love to hear your comments on below:

NO Floor-gazing.
Looking down when you squat can cause an injury, say scientists at Miami University. Floor-gazing during the move causes your body to lean forward, increasing the strain on your lower back. Keep your head straight by looking at your image in a mirror.??

This initial study was based on uni football players performing squats looking directly forward, up towards the ceiling or down towards the corner of the floor....
study found gazing down:
a) forward bends hips by 8%
b) forward flexion of spine by 2%

my question is what do you think about your head pointed straight ahead for the whole of the squat movement?

Thanks.
Butter

[Mark Rippetoe]

I saw that. It is wrong, and I think I make a good argument for why in SS:BBT. It has never been refuted. I welcome the opportunity to defend my position.

[Polynomial]

Is there a significant difference between where one should look on high bar vs low bar squats? Perhaps that's left out of the interpretation of the study.

[Mark Rippetoe]

No, because eye gaze direction does not depend on bar position on the back, which dictates back angle. It affects hip drive and balance.

BTW, the NSCA published a "study" in the December 2007 SCJ that determined there was no hamstring involvement in the squat. To quote: "Research suggests that the squat, regardless of technique variation, produces minimal activity in hamstring muscles (long list of citation numbers). To ensure balanced leg training, it would be prudent to include hamstring-specific exercises, such as the leg curl and the stiff-leg deadlift, because they showed greater hamstring activity than the squat."

So, I'm probably going to drop my credential. If they can't design a study to reflect the experience of millions of people who get hamstring sore, hamstring size, and hamstring tears when they squat, they're probably wrong about eye gaze too. And I can't see the value of a credential granted by an organization that publishes such silly bullshit. This has been coming for a long time.

[butter]

Understood, I am comfortable with my head position.. i'm curious to know if that study was referring to the same downward gaze as you recommend, is their % findings of any concern? I like the way you put it with the squat and that sounds about right.

Thankyou

[Mark Rippetoe]

The findings of that study are based on the assumption that lower back stress is not a normal part of the squat. I, on the other hand, have always used the squat as a BACK EXERCISE, so I think that lower back stress is a normal component thereof. The difference, of course, is that I have actually squatted heavy and trained people to be stronger through the use of heavy squats, and I'll bet you that the authors of that study have not.

[Polynomial]

BTW, the NSCA published a "study" in the December 2007 SCJ that determined there was no hamstring involvement in the squat. To quote: "Research suggests that the squat, regardless of technique variation, produces minimal activity in hamstring muscles (long list of citation numbers). To ensure balanced leg training, it would be prudent to include hamstring-specific exercises, such as the leg curl and the stiff-leg deadlift, because they showed greater hamstring activity than the squat."

Would it be difficult for you to get a response published in the same journal?

[Mark Rippetoe]

I have published several articles in that particular journal over the years. Judging from the difficulty I had getting as simple a thing published as the suggestion that novices require different programming than advanced athletes, it would be prohibitively aggravating to try. And I have no interested in convincing the NSCA that I am right about anything.