Overhead Press and back muscle activation/tightening

[SteelBack]

Hi- I am new at this so....

I am practicing the overhead press with really low weight bar- just to get the form down etc. And as soon as I finish even 2-3 really good reps where I pause at the top, my back muscles around my scapula pull in really tight. It feels good- it pulls my shoulders back and down. But kind of weird that this would happen so fast and even with low weight and few reps? I even tried it with a shower curtain rod and it did it? I am pretty sure my form is good. I've never had my back muscles contract like this before- I think it is the lower traps or lats just under the scapula- in that region. It doesn't hurt- just kind of freaky? The tightness or activation or whatever it is will last about 30 minutes.

So I am new to all of this- maybe that is just waking up my muscles?

Mr. Rippetoe, I believe if anyone has ever heard of this happening before it would be you and I would really appreciate hearing what you think. (I am hoping you will will say "Don't worry buddy that is totally normal!")

Thank you very much!

[Mark Rippetoe]

Have you read the part about reaching up with your shoulders at the top of the press?

[SteelBack]

Gosh, thank you Sir! Yes but I guess I glossed over that fact- I have been holding my shoulders down with my lower traps. I guess because I do not want to develop large upper traps (female here). I already have a tendency for my shoulders to elevate during the day, I didn't really want to train that..... but I will do it right from now on Just sort of worried about training that movement..

So just to confirm- my ****ENTIRE**** shoulder girdle is supposed to go up? Reach up **AS HIGH AS CAN** with that area beside my armpits. **COMPLETELY** let go of my lower traps?-

thank you

[Gunnhild Bruno]

So just to confirm- my ****ENTIRE**** shoulder girdle is supposed to go up? Reach up **AS HIGH AS CAN** with that area beside my armpits. **COMPLETELY** let go of my lower traps?

You are overthinking this. Just finish the press by shrugging the shoulders up as far as you can, then bring the bar back down right away. Don't hang around at the top of the press trying to get in touch with your lower traps enough to "let go of them".

Gosh, thank you Sir! Yes but I guess I glossed over that fact- I have been holding my shoulders down with my lower traps. I guess because I do not want to develop large upper traps (female here).

We're not really physique oriented around here, so we tend to not be too concerned with aesthetics on such a finely tuned level.

But I will remind you that muscles do not become hulking overnight (if only!), especially if you are female.

Do the movements correctly. Chances are that your traps will never become particularly large. But even if they do... so what? Does some bad thing happen? Do men in white coats come to dart you and put you away somewhere? Will dogs start howling at you in the street?

Deadlifting, powercleaning, and chinups/pullups will result in significant traps hypertrophy anyway, so you're not going to avoid traps hypertrophy by performing your press unsafely. The prospect of a damaged rotator cuff is of far more concern than the aesthetics of your traps.

So do the lifts correctly. If at some point, you decide your traps are getting "too big", you can always just stop lifting. The aesthetic effects of strength training are almost entirely reversible, much to the dismay of many people here, so if you don't like the direction your body is taking, you can always just stop and go back to whatever you look like now.

However, I recommend you put aside such concerns for now and just do the training right and see what it does for/to you. A lot of women find that lifting gives them a whole new perspective on their bodies--and on bodies in general.

I already have a tendency for my shoulders to elevate during the day, I didn't really want to train that..... but I will do it right from now on Just sort of worried about training that movement.

This almost certainly has nothing to do with excessive strength of your traps and everything to do with bad postural habits. Plenty of weak, completely untrained people with sad, small traps still manage to carry tension in their shoulders this way. The solution is not to try to avoid strengthening your traps along with the rest of the upper body, but to learn to become aware of when you tense your shoulders like this and stop yourself.

[Hercp]

Deadlifting, powercleaning, and chinups/pullups will result in significant traps hypertrophy anyway, so you're not going to avoid traps hypertrophy by performing your press unsafely. The prospect of a damaged rotator cuff is of far more concern than the aesthetics of your traps.

I never hurt my shoulder by doing the "shrug" in the Press, but it sure did hurt my shoulders when I did the snatch and the clean and jerk. When I held my shoulders down in the overhead positions, the pain went away, so I doubt that the "shrug" has anything to do with shoulder health. My advice to the original poster is to try both and see what feels better, allows to lift more wait, etc.

[Mark Rippetoe]

How is the overhead lockout position different in the press, jerk, and snatch except for the grip width? The traps hold up the scapulas which hold up the arms which hold up the bar, and the traps must bu squeezed up to support a heavy load. Perhaps your bar is light?

[SteelBack]

Thank you for replying. I don't really care about the size of my traps but I thought that if the upper traps are stronger than the lower traps then the shoulder girdle will have a tendency to elevate. A person can fight their posture all day long but if there is a muscle imbalance I think it is an exercise in futility.


Regarding which feels best- for me, if I completely shrug at the top, it feels like my core loses strength/stability because those muscles over the back of my rib cage are slack. Also, my head tends to pop forward, something I have not seen happen on the videos. What I call a shrug is really letting go of my lower traps as if someone poured ice water down my back. It doesn't feel right but then I was also trained in ballet where arms overhead are not permitted to shrug. In defense of Spar, I went to a physio at one point over my shoulders and he claimed the ballet overhead position is very hard on a person's shoulders. Then again, I didn't think he was a very good physiotherapist and most ballerinas have no problems with their shoulders. So I am still confused, thus my request to clarify that I am to let go absolutely with my lower traps. BTW, it is easy for me to reach up with my lats while still engaging my lower traps.

[Hercp]

Well, the pain started when I first learned the olympic lifts (I just had stopped for a couple of weeks the SS program; BW: 84kg, Press: 60kg, Squats: 135kg, all for 3x5 at the time), so because they are faster movements I might had wrong technique (didn't squeeze the bar enough and made adjastments after the I had the weight overhead etc.). The weight was indeed light (it started when i did 50kg jerk, but persisted for 3 months; when I could do 80kg jerk and 60kg snatch). But I think not doing the shrug keeps the shoulder more externally rotated (I might be wrong, my shoulder liked it anyway). If it's helpful, the pain was primarily close to the bone of my left shoulder but only at the full lockout overhead. Anyway, it's not bugging me anymore, so I reached the conlusion that it was the "shrug" to blame. :P

[Mark Rippetoe]

Thank you for replying. I don't really care about the size of my traps but I thought that if the upper traps are stronger than the lower traps then the shoulder girdle will have a tendency to elevate. A person can fight their posture all day long but if there is a muscle imbalance I think it is an exercise in futility.


Regarding which feels best- for me, if I completely shrug at the top, it feels like my core loses strength/stability because those muscles over the back of my rib cage are slack. Also, my head tends to pop forward, something I have not seen happen on the videos. What I call a shrug is really letting go of my lower traps as if someone poured ice water down my back. It doesn't feel right but then I was also trained in ballet where arms overhead are not permitted to shrug. In defense of Spar, I went to a physio at one point over my shoulders and he claimed the ballet overhead position is very hard on a person's shoulders. Then again, I didn't think he was a very good physiotherapist and most ballerinas have no problems with their shoulders. So I am still confused, thus my request to clarify that I am to let go absolutely with my lower traps. BTW, it is easy for me to reach up with my lats while still engaging my lower traps.

You have some significant misconceptions about lifting heavy weights. NOTHING is ever relaxed. You have to shrug your shoulders at the top to hold the bar up and to place your scapulas in a position to do so. You don't have the book, do you?

Well, the pain started when I first learned the olympic lifts (I just had stopped for a couple of weeks the SS program; BW: 84kg, Press: 60kg, Squats: 135kg, all for 3x5 at the time), so because they are faster movements I might had wrong technique (didn't squeeze the bar enough and made adjastments after the I had the weight overhead etc.). The weight was indeed light (it started when i did 50kg jerk, but persisted for 3 months; when I could do 80kg jerk and 60kg snatch). But I think not doing the shrug keeps the shoulder more externally rotated (I might be wrong, my shoulder liked it anyway). If it's helpful, the pain was primarily close to the bone of my left shoulder but only at the full lockout overhead. Anyway, it's not bugging me anymore, so I reached the conlusion that it was the "shrug" to blame. :P

You reached the wrong conclusion. It happens.

[SteelBack]

Sorry Sir no I don't I will buy it.... thank you.